Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:16:40 +0000 From: Grzegorz Junka <list1@gjunka.com> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /root on a separate dataset breaks FreeBSD-base installation Message-ID: <4ee7d986-79ba-cae4-fc52-875e3de6d39d@gjunka.com> In-Reply-To: <202004131856.03DIuCsQ032902@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202004131856.03DIuCsQ032902@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
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Many thanks for the detailed explanation. I will assume that /root has to be on the same dataset as / and workaround any issues. I might test at some point if bsdinstall is able to unpack the base system in a jail if they are not on the same dataset when I get a chance just out of curiosity. GrzegorzJ On 13/04/2020 18:56, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>> Here we disagree, I consider /root very much a part of the base >>> system and it should be pretty much unused. And I am a person >>> that logs in as root and su -'s out to user accounts, but I >>> still do not use /root as a normal home directory, everything >>> else is done and stored some other place. >> >> Do you see /root as part of the base here >> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/ ? ;-) > Yes, at a few places, that pkg base has majorly moved stuff around > and I am not going to hunt for it but etc/Makefile and etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist. > ${DESTDIR}/root is created and populated during a make distribution. > >> Also look here https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/jails-application.html >> >> /root is treated as editable part of the read-only base system, the same >> way as /home > editable != seperate vfs or zfs dataset. Try it, I suspect the jail > create fails with the same error that it can not cross link the files. > >>> The fact that it is shipped with the base system, created by the >>> base system installer, and is pretty much a mandatory required directoy, >>> however does make it very much part of the base system. >> >> We actually don't argue here if /root is part of a base system but if >> it's reasonable for the installer to assume that /root is on the same >> dataset as /. > It is totally reasonable for it to assume that since the contents > of / and /root are shipped in one tar ball, base.txz. > >> Based on the links I mentioned above, and on your comment, my >> understanding is that /root is not part of the base system but it's >> created and populated by the installer when installing the base. > Yo have miss undertood my comments then. It is populated by the > installer when it extracts base.txz. > >> Is the >> requirement that the /root dataset should be on the same dataset as / >> mentioned anywhere in the official documentation? I couldn't find it >> here >> <https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/bsdinstall-partitioning.html#bsdinstall-part-shell>; >> but it's also hard to search for due to root being a very common word in >> various contexts. Certainly bsdinstall doesn't require /root to be on >> the same dataset as /. > Loack of documentation does not change the assumptions made by the > base system. > >> If indeed there is no such existing requirement, then it would be > As it exists today "there is a requirement that /root and / be > in the same filesystem." That requirement is why your getting > an error. That requirement goes back to BSD 4.3 or earlier. > >> something new that pkgbase is introducing. Which might be fine, but is >> it reasonable? > This is not something new that pkg base has introduced, this requirement > has existed for > 2 decades. > >> I don't think so. Regardless if /root should be >> considered part of the base system or not, I don't see any reason for >> pkgbase or the FreeBSD's base system to require /root to be on the same >> dataset as / apart from those two hardlinks discussed earlier. > Yep, it is those 2 hard links that create the requirement, > and the reasons behind them being hard linked are rather > practical, it is so that when/if the system fails to single > user and HOME becomes / the user has the same environment > that they would had root loged in, sans having to manual > pick a shell. > >> >>>> It's home directory for the /root user, >>>> where I often have larger files that I either copy to install or just as >>>> a backup of some parts of the system. >>> I would never store backup's in /root! >> >> Backup may mean different things. I don't mean backups of the system. >> Consider a tarball of the kernel copied from another system that needs >> to be unpacked to / or temporary copies of some configs that are being >> edited, e.g. pf.conf or rc.conf. Where would you store those? > Probably in /tmp, maybe in ~rgrimes, but defanitly not in /root. > >>>> Versioning it per boot environment >>>> wouldn't make sense. >>> Double edge sword. The set of tweaks needed in .cshrc or .profile may >>> vary by version of FreeBSD installed. >>> >> Well, I would assume that an administrator is free to edit .cshrc and >> .profile for their own needs, e.g. add aliases or env variables. Once >> changed they would no longer be updated with the system but skipped. > Actually I believe the update process, especially pkg base knows how to > do 3 way merges of files marked as conf. > >> There are always reference versions in / which the administrator should >> consult and copy over any required changes after the system has been >> updated. > The files in / are NOT seperate versions, they are a second pointer > to the same file contents. Editing /.cshrc also changes /root/.cshrc. > >> GrzegorzJ
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