From nobody Wed Jan 15 15:16:58 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YY8js2ZBqz5kG5M for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Received: from mail.oetec.com (mail.oetec.com [108.160.241.186]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.oetec.com", Issuer "E5" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YY8jr4ZG7z3jBc for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:17:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=blastwave.org header.s=default header.b=RnfopVj5; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dclarke@blastwave.org designates 108.160.241.186 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dclarke@blastwave.org; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=blastwave.org Received: from [172.16.35.3] (pool-99-253-118-250.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.253.118.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.oetec.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 50FFGw6x026048 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:17:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blastwave.org; s=default; t=1736954220; bh=1bCci+r0lJJkhOYRxsc6ksANM2jycT1/OnO5nO2DSsY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=RnfopVj5pl8LhJY4CJMQt8s51i6P3nNgurVn+TqfQFum/ZQo9f5qkQA1/xlblcys2 tUCNiryCDBU8HGvg00WAh62EWWmOfuYOvMLSF4ub+FUhC2iC6N9ffEkWpBxDD02K1Y RfCaKPhHkFTOlfpAutuKgH4BJnXOB3YJqoC1jeyFWqPO01+FwwRPznsonMn6ue+uYV y7ReSlPR4ji5nF2nnK/7gbkGlxmQhIpa+sP/4EUwi9yV5oJ80Ivf89ZRx+acKG9MI8 RrTjBHVEQki8YlJT5w3tzMb5qomIf1TWxsZJ6wk0xIIfvuSBwT5nBqi+mSKaq8yY/w w1ESPljsrGcqA== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:16:58 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Current FreeBSD Content-Language: en-CA From: Dennis Clarke Subject: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Organization: GENUNIX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-oetec-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-oetec-MailScanner-ID: 50FFGw6x026048 X-oetec-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-oetec-MailScanner-From: dclarke@blastwave.org X-Spam-Status: No X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[blastwave.org,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[blastwave.org:s=default]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[108.160.241.186:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[blastwave.org:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:812, ipnet:108.160.240.0/20, country:CA]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YY8jr4ZG7z3jBc All : Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here? So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong. Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that dance on the rainbows. Failed: ?? Poudriere lately always says fail. Every day. Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag the logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps misled with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. This is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red Fat. Why do I always see things like this : Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every day. [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 295 Time: 00:03:39 It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine. The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. For a long time now. So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be, you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type? Am I lost here ? If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette. -- -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken