From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 00:13:01 2012 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG> Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C08F1065670; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4701F150480; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F74FA8C.8060108@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:13:00 -0700 From: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org> Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> References: <201203291401.q2TE1pLt079422@aurora.sol.net> In-Reply-To: <201203291401.q2TE1pLt079422@aurora.sol.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder <feld@feld.me>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 -0000 On 3/29/2012 7:01 AM, Joe Greco wrote: >> On 3/28/2012 1:59 PM, Mark Felder wrote: >>> FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested >> >> As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically >> it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer >> version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed >> since then. >> >> Doug > > So you're saying that he should have been using 8.3-RELEASE, then. That isn't what I said at all, sorry if I wasn't clear. The OP mentioned 9.0-RELEASE, and in the context of his message (which I snipped) he mentioned 8-stable. That's what I was referring to. > If you'll kindly go over to http://www.freebsd.org and look under > "Latest Releases", please note that "8.2" is a production release. > If you don't want it to be a production release, then find a way > to make it so, but please don't snipe at people who are using the > code that the FreeBSD project has indicated is a current production > offering. > > There are many good reasons not to run arbitrary snapshots on your > production gear. It's unrealistic to expect people to run non- > RELEASE non-production code on their production gear. We can have > that discussion if you don't understand that, drop me a note off- > list and I'll be happy to explain it. I can see that you're upset about something, sorry if my message caused you additional stress. I actually understand the realities of production environments quite well, and believe it or not I agree with some of your frustration about how we handle support for our "supported" releases. We've had various public threads about these issues, which have sparked some quite-lively private discussions amongst our committers, and I'm hoping that once the long-overdue 8.3-RELEASE is out we'll be able to buckle down and start putting some of those ideas into action. Meanwhile, this is still a volunteer project, and as a result sometimes the best way to get attention to a problem is to verify that it hasn't already been fixed. You've been around more than long enough to understand this Joe. We can spend time arguing about what *should* be (actually we can't ...) but my point was in trying to help the OP get the most/best help the fastest way possible. Doug