From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Feb 26 00:12:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1820B244F3F for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:12:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Received: from mail-io1-xd42.google.com (mail-io1-xd42.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48Rx881r0kz4Qtw for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:12:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Received: by mail-io1-xd42.google.com with SMTP id w9so1295495iob.12 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2020 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zwjMvt4CJVe5GoA9oCsa3Xhyh74UrFuv2vfLIb0H/Hs=; b=Lifw5D0Jm/8Ckz70UQh5d6dIX/MdWPApsQX0eYz7XBh+qtmAxLuxOB03adKsCM+iLE 830JKMLdY0+iVhc2zBej1taufLzZFsen1LCkFKYqDSBFiYMMY4A4pp/zZqo7eCJiBRG7 Ifd3JQLkN0M5wXQ9S5B0Tb2a2toOWSUZudJP6kMfpTbvXkkYoSBcTll48ArBFqzGlZG2 eRkJzZFurvm7hqUVjvzxaF6tbQJjlRZqpbt0yscJOePaTUI689/c7gwRuLjY1lKkxG5M 2KpK6GZb0q60tFh7tILSrHJ/L6JXXbHRss/U4OHEIAlwmJKYp2Xh28g65G3zEKX8QHxI 45Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zwjMvt4CJVe5GoA9oCsa3Xhyh74UrFuv2vfLIb0H/Hs=; b=VF6KT8dPw7kMys1RcsfDPUvUJ9eI+oC7HyR7W4tQx48Grzm6RXtkpM3flQI1NEyRCu 0f4HggIne1wUhsP1vku2WOmSyMNwBSTGDA3jpWrD7lSjGVX8wHvsg+fWQFRTWOmIDoXD anStHomt43uGowY/I3R/TQ8TBoL26T4WX5UbYxxRojmXL8d7RA/ZnFTlb3RWTCUT17le yXAFZSnuflxUxXNh/nW7+xMGAi1/vLJVRso8pLRjM/9WwNIB9BecMOIacbaEPI6bildT hHT14TRKRAKbGxjiZZXBF342dKxfmNPwcbi8fNuB8ABYBduLZF24ijYkspI6sftNYYey 5hiA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVhV7rsAcYIqI0OQO2xw5NpTwN34ITL+UUxyhYtTkH9vMeSf/LK uZDaW1CQXvj9Z9CUeuIdO8QTtiAuhmNNZTdNkP+BCvJ5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/WAT+7YJ2WXkf3aa1iIHwb7QB4szZRWRjSSCmsPq3w8ZqKzO0k/s4SucCtggj/eVlP6nLR8I3gwUCrm6YBgQ= X-Received: by 2002:a02:c76d:: with SMTP id k13mr1156039jao.13.1582675958294; Tue, 25 Feb 2020 16:12:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202002250115.01P1F9KX090465@mail.karels.net> <188F34DA-192C-4D44-96B5-18A7DAE8EC67@digsys.bg> <6028c786-8610-01d9-818e-6f69a2fe9645@ingresso.co.uk> <20200225145346.GA42880@phouka1.phouka.net> <6e329bb8-b96e-fa16-cc73-426685593943@denninger.net> In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:12:27 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Running FreeBSD on M.2 SSD To: Mario Olofo Cc: FreeBSD Stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48Rx881r0kz4Qtw X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=Lifw5D0J; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ggm@algebras.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ggm@algebras.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.77 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[algebras.org]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.27)[ip: (2.25), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.88), asn: 15169(-1.67), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:12:42 -0000 you said "hybrid HDD" is this possibly about write-back vs write-through cache integrity and some confusion in a driver over what is committed back in disk, and what is not? this feels like a very nasty corner case. Could you be explicit about versions and vendors? I am asking for selfish reasons: I have a lot of dependencies in a large SSD backed ZFS postgres server on Dell, and I am about to commit to a lenovo X1 Carbon 7/8th gen which would be SSD and almost certainly was intended to be ZFS-SSD in FreeBSD. -George On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:22 AM Mario Olofo wrote: > > Hello, > > I reinstalled FreeBSD 12.1 on my SSD (in the swap partition of my Linux t= o > test) and on my Hybrid HDD. > > Just configured rc.conf to start my wifi dongle, downoaded git, node and > npm via pkg and... as you can see in my screenshot, > the ZFS already shows corrupted data... > > Can't been able to load the FreeBSD from the HDD though, don't know why, = if > someone knows how to load the > kernel from the HDD via loader on SSD or grub2, I can try =3D) > > Mario > > Em ter., 25 de fev. de 2020 =C3=A0s 20:18, Mario Olofo > escreveu: > > > Hello, > > > > I reinstalled FreeBSD 12.1 on my SSD (in the swap partition of my Linux= to > > test) and on my Hybrid HDD. > > > > Just configured and rc.conf to start my wifi dongle, downoaded git, nod= e > > and npm via pkg and... as you can see in my screenshot, > > the ZFS already shows corrupted data... > > > > Can't been able to load the FreeBSD from the HDD though, don't know why= , > > if someone direct me how to load the > > kernel from the HDD via loader or grub2, I'll try =3D) > > > > Em ter., 25 de fev. de 2020 =C3=A0s 18:56, Mario Olofo > > escreveu: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I reinstalled FreeBSD 12.1 on my SSD (in the swap partition of my Linu= x > >> to test) and on my Hybrid HDD. > >> > >> Just configured and rc.conf to start my wifi dongle, downoaded git, no= de > >> and npm via pkg and... as you can see in my screenshot, > >> the ZFS already shows corrupted data... > >> > >> Can't been able to load the FreeBSD from the HDD though, don't know wh= y, > >> if someone direct me how to load the > >> kernel from the HDD via loader or grub2, I'll try =3D) > >> > >> Mario > >> > >> Em ter., 25 de fev. de 2020 =C3=A0s 12:11, Karl Denninger > >> escreveu: > >> > >>> > >>> On 2/25/2020 9:53 AM, John Kennedy wrote: > >>> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:07:48AM +0000, Pete French wrote: > >>> >> I have often wondered if ZFS is more aggressive with discs, becaus= e > >>> until > >>> >> very recently any solid state drive I have used ZFS on broke very > >>> quicky. ... > >>> > I've always wondered if ZFS (and other snapshotting file systems= ) > >>> would help > >>> > kill SSD disks by locking up blocks longer than other filesystems > >>> might. For > >>> > example, I've got snapshot-backups going back, say, a year then tho= se > >>> blocks > >>> > that haven't changed aren't going back into the pool to be rewritte= n > >>> (and > >>> > perhaps favored because of low write-cycle count). As the disk fil= ls > >>> up, the > >>> > blocks that aren't locked up get reused more and more, leading to > >>> extra wear > >>> > on them. Eventually one of those will get to the point of erroring > >>> out. > >>> > > >>> > Personally, I just size generously but that isn't always an opti= on > >>> for > >>> > everybody. > >>> > >>> I have a ZFS RaidZ2 on SSDs that has been running for several /years > >>> /without any problems. The drives are Intel 730s, which Intel CLAIMS > >>> don't have power-loss protection but in fact appear to; not only do t= hey > >>> have caps in them but in addition they pass a "pull the cord out of t= he > >>> wall and then check to see if the data is corrupted on restart" test = on > >>> a repeated basis, which I did several times before trusting them. > >>> > >>> BTW essentially all non-data-center SSDs fail that test and some fail= it > >>> spectacularly (destroying the OS due to some of the in-flight data be= ing > >>> comingled on an allocated block with something important; if the > >>> read/erase/write cycle interrupts you're cooked as the "other" data t= hat > >>> was not being modified gets destroyed too!) -- the Intels are one of = the > >>> very, very few that have passed it. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> -- Karl Denninger > >>> /The Market-Ticker/ > >>> S/MIME Email accepted and preferred > >>> > >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"