From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 3 17:47:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFC81065670; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:47:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABEE8FC1E; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:47:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m73HiJmB038782; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:44:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20080803.114438.2086213408.imp@bsdimp.com> To: rwatson@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: <20080801134435.GQ99951@hoeg.nl> <20080803.113253.-532680110.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@freebsd.org, ed@80386.nl, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, peterjeremy@optushome.com.au Subject: Re: Reminder: non-mpsafetty drivers to be *dis*connected on Sunday X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:47:40 -0000 In message: Robert Watson writes: : On Sun, 3 Aug 2008, M. Warner Losh wrote: : : > In message: <20080801134435.GQ99951@hoeg.nl> : > Ed Schouten writes: : Maybe I'm replying to too : > many messages at the same time, but as John : said, it's a lot easier making : > the remaining drivers work after the code : has been integrated. It's not : > like we're permanently carving things into : stone - we've almost got a full : > year to get it all working again. : > : > We've heard this promise before. It rarely has resulted in the promised : > work. I don't think this is the right way forward. : : I have to admit that I was quite pleasantly surprised that so many : network drivers became MPSAFE in the last couple of months, and USB : will nicely round that out. It may help if Ed could take whatever : notes he sent Peter about sio and drop them on the Wiki as the : beginning of a howto on adapting drivers to the new tty layer. One : thing I would really like to see is us taking this as an opportunity : to get more people interested in maintaining the tty drivers we have : -- now is a really good opportunity for people do adopt drivers and : update them. : : I fall down a bit more on the Warner side here also: I think posting : the docs in advance of removing the drivers, and having a couple of : weeks gap between those events, is a much more productive way to : achieve the goal of updated drivers. It also means that we don't : have timeline gaps when serial drivers for devices are broken: when : people are playing the binary search game to find some other : problem, the last thing they want is to hit dates where their system : consoles don't work. Yes. It wouldn't kill us to push this out 4-6 weeks. Having the docs available, even in the wiki form, would help quite a bit. We want to harvest the enthusiasm people like Peter and Peter are showing to convert their drivers. Warner