From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 01:55:41 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFC116A419 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com [69.89.21.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8DD0313C468 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 11584 invoked by uid 0); 26 Nov 2007 01:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2007 01:55:41 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IwTCG-0002Sh-PQ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:55:40 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAQ1uGoN029894 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:56:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lAQ1uFwm029893 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:56:15 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071126015615.GE29622@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> <47470077.7030706@chrononomicon.com> <20071123184838.GA18711@parts-unknown.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071123184838.GA18711@parts-unknown.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:55:41 -0000 On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 10:48:38AM -0800, David Benfell wrote: > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:31:51 -0500, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > > > > We have adults who can't be bothered to tell the difference > > between lose and loose in writing. Wonderful things encouraged by people > > justifying their lazy writing styles. > > > This might be slightly unfair. > > A large proportion of the population has *never* been able to spell correctly > or to use proper grammar. A difference between now, and a few years ago, is > that we are more often encountering their expressions in a written form, as > they, too, gain access to the Internet. I think it's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem: we don't really know for sure whether TOFU[1] posting spurred much of the rise of illiteracy or the increase of relative illiteracy on the Internet led to an increase in TOFU posting. Which came first? Ultimately, I think greater frequency of TOFU posting and a reduced average ability to order one's thoughts to compose meaningful discourse each contribute to the other. > > And an insistence on grammatical and spelling correctness is its own form of > elitism. Is it? In my case, it tends to be a couple of things, neither of which is particularly elitist as far as I can tell: 1. an attempt to help others learn how to think more clearly and express themselves more precisely 2. an easy way to filter those who do not think very clearly so I can spend more of my time on those who do, since better grammar and spelling (along with certain other communication skills) tends to be indicative of clearer thought I won't ignore someone who displays appalling lack of writing capabilities just because of poor spelling or grammar. I sometimes need to cut down on how much stuff gets read in a given day, so I have time to do something with the information I get from my reading, and when the need is great enough it's usually the people who don't communicate worth a damn that get cut first. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Kent Beck: "I always knew that one day Smalltalk would replace Java. I just didn't know it would be called Ruby."