From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 21:06:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D5E10BAE33; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:06:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2514E8510F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp59-167-167-3.static.internode.on.net [59.167.167.3]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94L6ZWA015005 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:46 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94L6TSr097472 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:29 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w94L6TSU097471; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:29 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:28 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004210628.GC21091@server.rulingia.com> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:06:56 -0000 --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018-Oct-04 08:44:11 +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly >is the burden here? As various others have stated, this isn't true. All the code in FreeBSD has an ongoing maintenance cost and is an impediment to adding new features. There is no point in spending valuable developer effort to update drivers and test them with unusual/obsolete hardware unless those drivers are going to actually be used. >Another question: why the fuck FreeBSD likes to kill >non-broken, low-volatile and perfectly working stuff? That language is uncalled for. >We offer probably >the best NIC driver support on the block, yet you're proposing to shrink >one of the few areas where we shine. WTF?! Supporting NICs that no-one uses doesn't benefit anyone. No-one is talking about removing NICs that are in active use. >ae(4) was used in Asus EeePC 701/900 which are still popular among hackers. Those netbooks are more than a decade old now and I don't expect many are still functional. Will people still expect to use them with FreeBSD 13 in 5 years time? >As it can be seen this list tends to cover nearly all 100 cards, yet no >one (pardon me if I missed those) asks for 10. So how about making this >proposal cover only 10 cards, What is the purpose in keeping unused FastEthernet cards in the tree? >if you can't resist the itch to remove >something from the tree? Again, that language is uncalled for. --=20 Peter Jeremy --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAlu2gNRfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzRLMQ/7BHZCxWvC61I7bvv2AtbR4AfOz+Ei84NDcdKie4wNSdTn8w9JHqyEdolj cL49a1chwzS25dJIqpcj0wXM9j+1v0ed8+UYl+JYMVqD7qVdsyKIi66ceg8nnH1i flO/cyBrFfSAs2k1HZd1+BqJg2phvM0utK5MxMrYNqFlFRpfQXu0HnZweyBV7Of0 Nwk4ooKhFTgy+dgi9QVSNmfodD0VOh6J35ZXiSQAsDgtDohv9oliFfbf5FdlzW9t PbjPwhyTbultFQ4rNrJwM05fR2tTFIfMm84P2W5nZS/MMeTKsDjDMad2ePlwL3TX mU2K3f0HN1hfA6LTKiRl9fcFqzKSRQszE9RQ1hjW/rkk2JS2KkpMY2biScONAOmh YhT6kUMQORS5BI3YZxYnHCgGNNVltmXGCgFQBasBaf1Mb456vo2tb3lCEGRaUvi9 Uiv6TkCOWsZHSeMuAVTlWHyaMOnflLH+cu890Ox5FwTACLy6oA4zwSb/fDvOLmn6 CV+R0VEiEze0sUNPIhPPqpWBc5PwuFMnjCyleFeQuMigCOb0JHV6BljJ9XpqQY43 dYxB1HyE+8vPUgqvJBadoh7iVXHOQ74T2XacrU571WY5T/TdEBGaza1vaYKic/td gF8wDjOk8iVpfkvAqTh/ea9Mj6Pn7Gb7I6UAwqW4wD85YAShtxo= =qZrA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv--