From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 00:36:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6161065678; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:36:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mfouts@danger.com) Received: from mx.danger.com (wall.danger.com [216.220.212.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D568FC1B; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:36:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mfouts@danger.com) Received: from danger.com (exchange3.danger.com [10.0.1.7]) by mx.danger.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFF4402FE5; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200804012325.m31NPwM1042551@apollo.backplane.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Flash disks and FFS layout heuristics Thread-Index: AciUT8TcTf9Q5HzrRyu3uwNh8yZ7yAABWEug References: <20080330231544.A96475@localhost> <200803310135.m2V1ZpiN018354@apollo.backplane.com> <200803312125.29325.qpadla@gmail.com> <200803311915.m2VJFSoR027593@apollo.backplane.com> <200803312006.m2VK6Aom028133@apollo.backplane.com> <200803312254.m2VMsPqZ029549@apollo.backplane.com> <200804011733.m31HXF6e039649@apollo.backplane.com> <200804012014.m31KEvTJ041049@apollo.backplane.com> <200804012325.m31NPwM1042551@apollo.backplane.com> From: "Martin Fouts" To: "Matthew Dillon" Cc: Christopher Arnold , arch@freebsd.org, qpadla@gmail.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Flash disks and FFS layout heuristics X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:36:42 -0000 =20 > I can't believe it, you actually think you know more=20 > about embedded design then I do! What a laugh. >=20 > I don't know a thing about you, and you clearly don't=20 > know a thing about me. Here's a hint: When you don't > know you shouldn't assume. So what part of "you think you know" is *not* an assumption? > You think these problems are complex? Yes. I do it. That's what makes them fun. > Embedded systems these days are nearly complete > single-chip microcomputers running hacked up but nearly complete > operating systems containing 95% off-the-shelf software,=20 > much of it open source, and much of it provided to the developer on=20 > a shiny platter, with a fully operational SDK and HDK and FPGA logic=20 > around the core cpu. It amazes me that you can assert to be so knowledgeable about embedded systems and then make such a glaringly wrong description of the ones I work on. Our current shipping product has *no* off-the-shelf software, beyond a few small libraries for image encoding, out of several million lines of code. There's no 'fully operational SDK', beyond a gcc crosscompiler that we've debugged ourselves. The SOC has no FPGA. > All in one chip. These days 'embedded' means you are sporting a > completely functional linux operating system in a two=20 > chip solution It's not a single chip or even two chips. It doesn't run linux. Keep guessing wrong, Matt. > with virtually no external parts required beyond those=20 > needed for the connectors. There are a lot more parts than connectors in the BOM. Wrong again. > And it's all now written in C or C++ or=20 > whatever the hell language you want to write it in. Well, "whatever the hell language" gets you off on a technicality there, Matt. > It's crazy easy to do embedded development work these=20 > days. No more difficult then writing software on a full blown PC. There is a class of such development. Pity it's not the class I'm working in. > I'm sorry, but if that is your idea of complex then its roughly > equivalent to my idea of ridiculously easy. No, Matt, it's not my idea of complex. I see that you're more in need of your advice about not assuming than I am.