From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 24 05:10:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B498E16A41F for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:10:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA60D43D46 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:10:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9O5A5JG030362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:10:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with UUCP id j9O5A5bc030361; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:10:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: from titan.klemm.apsfilter.org (localhost.klemm.apsfilter.org [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.apsfilter.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j9O53QiS020191; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:03:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by titan.klemm.apsfilter.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9O53POr020190; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:03:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:03:25 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Sangwoo Shim Message-ID: <20051024050325.GA18276@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> References: <4352D860.000002.03681@tide.yandex.ru> <20051017144920.GA597@gothic.blackend.org> <4cbd01f40510171008x42b4738bi@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4cbd01f40510171008x42b4738bi@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.0-RC1 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nvi for serious hacking X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:10:08 -0000 On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 02:08:40AM +0900, Sangwoo Shim wrote: > Actually the first thing that I do after minimal installing of new system is > to install vim from the ports tree. (in fact, installing cvsup, of course :-) > I remember once upon a time someone (david?) made a suggestion that nvi in > our tree should be changed to vim-lite(or something.) I'm tend to agree > with that.. (Although vim is GPL'd, nvi is in the src/contrib anyway..) Please no ;-) Although vim has some nice features its definitively different to standard vi behaviour, which can really bitch you in some situations. Most favourite example: I personally still get mad if it comes to the "u" undo key. Standard vi lets you toggle your last change by hitting "u". So I'm used that it doesn't hurt to type the "u" key multiple times. This is very usefull to let your eye browse through a complex change to make an "a/b" comparison. If you do that in vim, then you loose as many last changes as you hit "u" repeatedly. And if you did many changes you loose a serious amount of work. >From my experience you cannot recover from such a mistake. Therefore standard vi is for me much superior, since with it I can get my job done in a reliable manner without fancy side effects. I don't want to start an editor flamewar. I know many people who start to like vi starting with vim. And editors are an issue of taste and experience in use ... Its only a thing to take into consideration whats better. To learn standard vi, thats available everywhere. Or to have the same situation as with emacs ... Vim is still kind of an exot for me. That its standard vi on nearly all Linuxes around still doesn't qualify it enough as standard vi... Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm - Powered by FreeBSD 6 Need a magic printfilter today ? -> http://www.apsfilter.org/