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Date:      Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:30:00 -0500 (CDT)
From:      James Nuckolls <jamesn@what.net>
To:        <mjacob@feral.com>, freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Compaq's alpha unit being sold (off-topic)
Message-ID:  <200106252230.f5PMTx788105@jamesnt.iadfw.net>
In-Reply-To: <20010625140615.L3157-100000@wonky.feral.com>
References:  <20010625140615.L3157-100000@wonky.feral.com>

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In mailinglist.freebsd.alpha, you wrote:
> It'll be interesting. Since some large government labs have predicated their
> supercomputing clusters on EV8, we'll see what they have to say about it.

I thought about the same earlier in the weekend.

> I'm just noting that with the death of any serious corporate backing for
> servers for Alpha, the only thing left that could be taken seriously as a

I think this may be the fatal flaw in your argument, that is assuming
there's been serious corporate backing for the Alpha at any point
in the last 5 years.  Let's face it, DEC was closer to death than
anyone really wants to admit.  Further, just given how Compaq has been
marketing themselves to even current Alpha customers has given, at
least, me the impression that not only were they never really all
that committed to the Alpha, but it's also pretty clear that they
don't even understand the Alpha and why it worked so well for DEC
for so long.

The not understanding part is pretty easy and can be summed up in
one word:  Linux.   Compaq has spent every waking moment since
discovering that they really did own the Alpha trying to position
it as a faster Linux (than that copy of Red Hat you've got installed
on your LETNi machine).  Digital mortgage their future on the Alpha
because they saw the processor as more of a platform to provide
stability and scalability via VMS and Digital UNIX on a platform
they not only control, but write the compiler for.

With that in mind, I really don't see OSF (Digital UNIX) as a viable
solution when the Alpha is abandoned in favor of IA-64, which is
exactly why Dec abandoned the OSF port to IA-64 in the first place.
You have to ask yourself a question:  Why would I but a Compaq
branded IA-64 box in favor of any number of cheeper operating
systems with will probably work just as well?  The answer is, I
wouldn't.

VMS, on the other hand probably is just as viable on IA-64 as it
is on Alpha.  (Reference:  VMS/MIPS -> OpenVMS)


> server alternative to Intel is the UltraSparc platforms, and that's unlikely

Tell that to IBM and Apple.  I think you'll see both companies be
a bit more forceful with their positioning in the large server
market.  Which is a good thing, as I'd be more than happy to buy
a large Apple PPC based servers when I can't buy Alphas anymore.

> to be a win for Open Source here either as there's less support in Sun than
> there was inside DEQ for Open Source. Oh well.

So, you're arguing that Open Source works better when there's more
platforms to port your OS to?  I'm not sure I agree.  Just on the
surface, I'd say that's it's somewhat easier since  you know who
your friends are, and what they are trying to hide.

You are also assuming that Intel is like Microsoft.  In several
ways they are (take a very close look at this agreement) but they
really aren't that interested in controlling what software you run.
Further, Intel realized a while ago that Microsoft isn't the only
game in town and really has almost no standing in the large
server market.  Linux is the BSDs are far more important in this
segment and Intel knows this.


[1] Though it generally is, but only because Dec never could get
away with the kinds of crap that LETNi does.



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