From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 19 07:48:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16DA37B401; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from franky.speednet.com.au (franky.speednet.com.au [203.57.65.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6F143FA3; Mon, 19 May 2003 07:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from hewey.af.speednet.com.au (hewey.af.speednet.com.au [203.38.96.242])h4JEm7wP048975; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:48:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from hewey.af.speednet.com.au (hewey.af.speednet.com.au [172.22.2.17])h4JEm6Ym096615; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:48:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:48:06 +1000 (EST) From: Andy Farkas X-X-Sender: andyf@hewey.af.speednet.com.au To: Ruslan Ermilov In-Reply-To: <20030519134450.GF28176@sunbay.com> Message-ID: <20030520000655.F93323-100000@hewey.af.speednet.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: man(1) oddity - was: HEADS UP: bzip2(1) compression for manpages... X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:48:11 -0000 On Mon, 19 May 2003, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 10:52:30PM +1000, Andy Farkas wrote: > > On Mon, 19 May 2003, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 10:21:58PM +1000, Andy Farkas wrote: > > > > > > > > Please realise what I've been trying to tell you: there is a difference in > > > > the user experience when one types `man ppp` on a 4.8 box and when one > > > > types `man ppp` on a 5.1-B box. On a 4.8 box the user types `man ppp`, > > > > gets a message, then waits around 10 seconds for the page to display. On a > > > > 5.1-B box the user types `man ppp` and DOES NOT GET A MESSAGE BUT HAS TO > > > > WAIT 10 SECONDS before the page is displayed. I can not explain the above any better. > I DO understand what you're trying to tell me, I'm just trying to > stand you corrected. ;) Correct what? As I see it, when a (normal) user is migrated from a 4.8 box to a 5.1-B box, their man(1) experience is different, so much so that it causes major "A". (<-- POLA). (<--because previously a normal user got a message telling them to wait 10 secs, but with -cur no message appears but you still wait 10 seconds before something happens) > > Facts: > > 1. When catpage is not created, the message is not displayed, > purposedly, either on 4.x or 5.x, under root or non-root, > doesn't matter. The message is only displayed the first > time the catpage is created. > > 2. A catpage is always created for a root user. > > 3. A catpage (for a system manpage) is only created for a > non-root user if man(1) is setuid "man". > > The facts are true for both 4.x and 5.x. Arrghh. Why you not believe me when I have proved the user experience is different between 4.x and 5.x ????? Facts: 1. A Normal user on a 4.x box types `man ppp` and is instantly told "Formatting page, please wait..." and then 10 seconds later is presented with the man page. 2. A Super user on a 4.x box types `man ppp` and is instantly told "Formatting page, please wait..." and then 10 seconds later is presented with the man page. 3. A Normal user on a 5.x box types `man ppp` and NOTHING HAPPENS until 10 seconds later when the man page is presented. 4. a Super user on a 5.x box types `man ppp` and is instantly told "Formatting page, please wait..." and then 10 seconds later is presented with the man page. Please study hard 1. and 3. > If you remove the -DSETREUID bit from src/gnu/usr.bin/man/man/Makefile > in 4.x, you won't get the message there too. As a normal user, I *WANT* the message!!!!! > > So, to brought the message back in 5.x, we'd have to re- > enable the setuid code in man(1), which we're not ready > to yet. Got it? Perhaps we are seeing the same thing from different perspectives... > > -- > If catpages aren't created, my timings are as follows on > a 500MHz Celeron box: > > $ /usr/bin/time -h man ppp >/dev/null > 4,20s real 4,07s user 0,09s sys > > But if I just type "man ppp", I'm presented with the first > page of output in about 1 second, so I roughly "don't have > to wait when the whole manpage gets formatted". How much > seconds does it take for some text to appear on a terminal > attached to your slow box in this case? I showed you timings before. My experience (as a normal user) differs from yours. Whenever I type `man $manpage_not_viewed_by_root_before` it does NOT present me "with the first page of output in about 1 second". -- :{ andyf@speednet.com.au Andy Farkas System Administrator Speednet Communications http://www.speednet.com.au/