From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Sat May 26 16:35:11 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21210EEDE54 for ; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:35:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E75C76B29 for ; Sat, 26 May 2018 16:35:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id e20-v6so10375152itc.1 for ; Sat, 26 May 2018 09:35:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=uNYVuMwUJF5hrOuXua4lc9T336rCI+ZDe6MmqX/mfWY=; b=RExXqxZ/SjP0YdQlqRwAAU27utclWuFD59SeCVwTymq3pphKfnaGJAHQaUkXE2MNgN m5SvUOqEpACrFinPhOKoB7BQFvZw3Yahm5erM7j3ztdkdapON6Ymk+GljNf+TFVIXl1V H66RqQ2GlhiSYIZBG/SS1Y2tRG5Js8S1jgmC9p50yDOzCkaYCIvk2kSbhUYGiJVn9K1m 2gch4vTtc/qw82D3Jt1xgHUnhkz1v8f2nXuLYrsxoqttiPRtMQtaUyD568R02IYcaTzn FbTr1ftV5gN5ogcSKNUK8dIbZ0hfi97rTvghnPqV/uJ7nmNtx4QxnPJUF+YKqYuIgqav fYnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uNYVuMwUJF5hrOuXua4lc9T336rCI+ZDe6MmqX/mfWY=; b=Fyriz/jFgdUAMXicG1JBowl+RihF4CcJCUnosUzRojkZa6223hhpRlGZA+S59QTVdd 0hQVUVM/8pG6ECYQNpTqjjKwE0rofbdk3pp5XAIDAHZOAGRuA9jkGhU7PjZLX5YTv9YH 3BDGhi/mZZDglRntz+fsSK1BGb3Y2o4pPLofVd7HzGsL43dmlDJqZ1XwLSBPUtALfo5l lGDSKORawNbIE1qvf+tUd33QRFLUo+AMChGispX0jNcIL7g9tDnaTkeFZ6WbwQ8CBBrx guGb9xQobt794Q6WVqfjzx+IcvQoB7tFScxJ7UQtGXGXuvxbyniBMUHatrjUwNgLasEx vk0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweyb4veTrQXVgIPXxW3kvvxVZsbXU6facK7Bxnrio8cZ3pTIzvn uNZRVfiJkiIHxeTBxg4c0ftjIpQl3zxrdtTnjfjjSQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJJvL7S9HYOSEwF+FuDdHbI+/09Tf4dPnI3EaZ97QmpB3o7fE1EoTn13Dhdwaxcy764JRpwF2RU+KGLbXewf2o= X-Received: by 2002:a24:6ec1:: with SMTP id w184-v6mr5719746itc.57.1527352509823; Sat, 26 May 2018 09:35:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:d028:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 26 May 2018 09:35:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [50.253.99.174] In-Reply-To: References: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> <18a87d6d-14af-ef9d-80ff-403039e36692@cs.duke.edu> <20180525003949.GA710@lonesome.com> <05C5BD86-70D0-4B02-AC29-36E68B3602AE@FreeBSD.org> <1A6567CD-5BE8-4E80-A262-00ADB75CF35A@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 10:35:09 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ioRMUGXYfX6YTslxgNK3tnww0Dg Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "src-committers@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 16:35:11 -0000 On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 8:58 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > So, when do we get to reprise this thread on -arch instead of svn-src-head? > I'm thinking sometime in July or August when I plan on submitting a draft for a FCP for formalized deprecation for drivers (and another for arch) to the community for discussion, revision, etc. It's long overdue and we've let things slide too long. I'm planning two different docs because the evaluation process different enough for the two cases to warrant separate docs, I think. However, one of the primary criteria is missing for i386: it's still widely used and well supported. Any talk about i386 going away anytime soon is simply a non-starter. There's simply no consensus for it being gone in 12, and I doubt such consensus will form for 13 (though it will be easier if we write down the past traditional methods that have worked in part and failed in part). I doubt we'll rehash this thread there before we get closer to the 13 branch point, if we do it then. Honestly, there's a lot of other deadwood that needs to be cleaned up first, and talk of i386 is a distraction to that. And no, that's not an invitation to post examples. Let's get the criteria in place, then use that with examples people come up with then. Otherwise, it will be another 40 messages about how aha has outlived its usefulness that nobody does anything about (yes, I chose aha because I removed it earlier in the year: sometimes people give examples that are not well informed). Warner