From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 10:11:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E809116A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail10.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7012D43FDD for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 8382 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 17:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Sep 2003 17:11:10 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8IHB76Y088504; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:11:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F69CE7E.6050801@sitetronics.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:11:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Devon H. O'Dell" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Michal Pasternak cc: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Sorry about sysinstall. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:11:13 -0000 On 18-Sep-2003 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > Look, otherwise why don't we set up a freebsd-flames list? What we need > now is more productivity and less bitching/whining/moaning/etc. I'm sure > this has been said on numerous lists, numerous times. > > Whose idea was this? Can we get a more structured plan about: > > a) What the installation system would entail > b) A mock-up of what it'd look like > c) What packages would be installed for the desktop > d) What desktop system would be 'supported' (personally, I like the > freedom to choose anyway, perhaps including screenshots of nicely > configured available WMs is something to do if we're going to *really* > *truly* do this) > e) Other related miscellany I've done a) and b) before FWIW, having written the beginnings of a new installer using tvision. I've also actively worked on sysinstall and the release process for quite a while now, so I'm not a clueless nut on this particular problem space. To be honest, what we need is a more flexible installation process that can be extended to possibly have a graphical front end at some point in the future. Something kind of like libh but less ambitious (no new packaging system, no packages for the base system) and done incrementally. The basic thing I think it needs is to have embedded scripting. My personal preference at the time is to use python and C++ because I am somewhat familiar with those, but Tcl is another option as well. I think the first cut should basically just replace sysinstall's current functionality with some python scripts and appropriate C++ bindings. The next task would be to split sysinstall into sysinstall and sysconfig. Once that is done, then things can start getting more fancy in several directions. Having participated in libh in its early days, I must admit that I am somewhat skeptical that a new installer will be functional anytime soon. Mostly b/c people want to rewrite it from scratch each time rather than taking an incremental approach and the project dies before it gets to a functional milestone. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/