From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 27 14:18:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [216.152.64.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486B537B401 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whenever ([206.171.168.130]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:18:14 -0700 From: David Schwartz To: Cc: , FreeBSD Chat X-Mailer: PocoMail 2.51 (988) - Registered Version Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:18:13 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20010927213312.C69066@lpt.ens.fr> Subject: Re: helping victims of terror Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <20010927211814.AAA4770@shell.webmaster.com@whenever> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:33:12 +0200, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >David Schwartz said on Sep 27, 2001 at 12:25:16: >> But what I'm sensing from your other replies is that you hold= the view >>that no ideology can be judged because in order to do so, you= must hold >>some standard and obviously any ideology will pass its own= standard and >>it's not fair to judge one ideology by the standards of= another. >No I never said that and I don't think I implied that. =09Yes, you did. >If you want to know what I think of ideologies, I think they're= Bad Things. >There is no such thing as a good ideology. A thinking person= must always >question, and accept certain aspects of any ideology which= appeals, but be >willing to reject other aspects of the same ideology (in= particular >religion, but also communism and capitalism). >Everyone must have a personal philosophy, subject to change, and= not >dictated by external authorities who can't be questioned. =09Right, but this is not consistent with: >If there was an ideology that said having blonde hair was a= crime but that >violent actions were evil then it is not the fault of the= ideology for >violence against people with blonde hair since those= perpetrating the >violence are not believers in the ideology, they're just haters= of people >with blonde hair who have picked out that one piece of someone= elses >ideology to justify their actions. >You're now applying your own idealogy to pieces of someone= elses, that's not >a valid course of debate. =09You can't have it both ways. Either I can judge by rational= standards or I have to judge other people's ideology by those people's= standards, whether they're rational or not. =09What you've done is equate the rational with the irrational. If= I wish to judge communism, I must do so by communist standards, whether I= find them rational or not. And the sole justification for the communist= standards is that communists hold them. =09You can either argue: >A thinking person must always >question, and accept certain aspects of any ideology which= appeals, but be >willing to reject other aspects of the same ideology (in= particular >religion, but also communism and capitalism). =09Or you can argue: >You're now applying your own idealogy to pieces of someone= elses, that's not >a valid course of debate. =09But you can't do both. One is right and the other is wrong. So= pick one, hopefully the right one. =09DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message