From nobody Tue Aug 12 14:50:57 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4c1ZFj2G3nz64ttV for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 14:51:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid2.gid.co.uk (ns0.gid.co.uk [IPv6:2001:470:94de::240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gid2.gid.co.uk", Issuer "gid2.gid.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4c1ZFh4sjxz3dlJ for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 14:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by gid2.gid.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 57CEpCNc058605; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:51:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([89.248.30.154]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id 57CEp7rE088100; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:51:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBase and Embedded Systems From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:50:57 +0100 Cc: "freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <21444d9f-8a52-494e-a8d6-1700fd1ec769@denninger.net> <5FD8F9E6-C4B5-4B86-A5E8-491B544B0567@gid.co.uk> To: Karl Denninger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c1ZFh4sjxz3dlJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US] > On 12 Aug 2025, at 14:55, Karl Denninger wrote: >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] > Its not so much a "how cheap is the resource" problem (yes, that's = gotten a lot cheaper over time) its a "the box MUST come back online = after an unsolicited power event." > That in turn means the physical volume cannot be open for write, = particularly in the instance of a volume that co-mingles various = metadata that is internal to the device itself (e.g. an SSD which does = its own internal wear leveling and such.) 95% of the time IMHO isn't = good enough. Our critical stuff is all on secured power, but we did do a certain = amount of =E2=80=98plug-pull=E2=80=99 testing with ZFS and SSDs on = PCEngines boxes and Intel rackmount servers, and we didn=E2=80=99t = manage to make it misbehave. Even if the physical volume isn=E2=80=99t open for write, it could still = get trashed if the controller misbehaves in response to a power glitch. > --=20 > Karl Denninger > karl@denninger.net > The Market Ticker > [S/MIME encrypted email preferred] -- Bob Bishop t: +44 (0)118 940 1243 rb@gid.co.uk m: +44 (0)783 626 4518