Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 05:46:34 -0500 From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan), kris@catonic.net (Kris Kirby), brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), chip@wiegand.org (Chip Wiegand), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Subject: Re: Just an observation - MUA's seen in the lists Message-ID: <15064.10890.325401.232786@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <200104140559.WAA05887@usr05.primenet.com> References: <15063.39576.995081.739592@guru.mired.org> <200104140559.WAA05887@usr05.primenet.com>
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Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> types: > > > > > Really, FreeBSD is unsuitable for use as an MUA supporting > > > > > desktop machine, unless your users are much more sophisticated > > > > > than average. > > > > I disagree. > > > Of course you disagree. You are a geek, not a secretary or a > > > stock broker. > > > > I admit I'm a geek, but I still disagree. Once it's installed and > > configured, FreeBSD is perfectly usable by those people. It requires > > no more training tha MS-Windows does. It is *perfectly* suitable for > > supporting an MUA; there are no technical, usability or even intuitive > > issues (but see Raskin on intuition) that make it inferior to > > MS-Windows. The only problem it has is that finding people who have > > already drunk the MS cool-aid is easy, whereas finding people trained > > for some Unix toolset is hard. > People _already_ have training on Windows. That's what I just said. > > > > The reason most users use windows is that they get it > > > > pre-installed; they don't find it any easier to fix if they have a > > > > problem. > > > Sure they do: > > > 1) Call help desk > > > 2) Help desk reinstalls machine or brings you a replacement > > > 3) Go back to using the computer as a tool, instead of as > > > an ends in itself (like some geek) > > Of course, this isn't an MS-Windows feature. The exact same fix works > > in shops that install Unix on desktops. > No, it doesn't. Yes, it does. If a unix desktop is broken in a Unix shop, the steps a user takes to get it fixed are: 1) Call help desk. 2) Help desk fixes it, though reinstall or a replacment is considered an extreme case. 3) Go back to using the computer. > I have to learn the UNIX specific keyboard > shortcuts. I have to learn how to make the "home" and "end" > keys do what I expect them to do, in all their standard/ctrl/alt > glory. The pre-existing training - or lack thereof - has *nothing* to do with how IT staff fixes desktop machines. > > > > I have installed linux (around 2 years ago, when the GUI's were > > > > much less polished) for people having trouble with their > > > > windows machines, and they're continuing to use that linux > > > > installation to this day. > > > They probably get pissed when they get a PowerPoint presentation, > > > Excell spreadsheet, or Word document as an email atttachment. > > That depens on the software that's been installed. > Really? I can give you Excel and Word 2000 documents that will > crash both KDE apps and StarOffice, I've seen word docs that crash word. MS formats are no more stable than MS software. I've as yet to find a word doc that one of the multitude of free word translators wouldn't handle. > > > Or you installed the entire shop that way, and they are a small > > > closed shop that doesn't often communicate with other businesses in > > > The Real World(tm) > > I'm not positive, but my experience with MS Exchange indicate that > > this argument implies everyone working in TRW has to have MS Exchange > > as a mail server. I've had more problems with people using > > Outlook/Exchange sending me mail with formatting information that > > didn't survive Exchange's SMTP gateway than I have with people sending > > MS Word docs or similar closed formats. > I happen to know the main TRW administrator; I went to school with > him (he has a PhD in history) the majority of TRW uses VAX equipment > for mail services, and gateways to anything other than that. Ask > Wes Peters about "Eric Swedin", if you don't believe me. Ok, you know this person. What does that have to do with what MS Exchange does to mail going out through it's SMTP gateway? > > > If you do business with _anyone_ else using your computers, you > > > _can't_ live with a closed shop system. That's jus the way > > > business is. > > In other words, to have an open shop, you have to use a closed > > system. That's amusing. > No. In order to do business, you have to pay the devil his > due, and that means running Microsoft products, and business > doesn't give a flying whether you like that or not. Again, you're repeating what I said. <mike -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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