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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de,
kaleb@x.org
References: <199510162040.NAA25331@phaeton.artisoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <199510162040.NAA25331@phaeton.artisoft.com>;
from Terry Lambert at Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:40:10 -0700 (MST)
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Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 00:00:12 +0300 (MSK)
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From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=
(aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) <ache@astral.msk.su>
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Subject: Re: A couple problems in FreeBSD 2.1.0-950922-SNAP
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In message <199510162040.NAA25331@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert
writes:
>> >BTW, this hack adds 24K to the size of a minimal statically linked
>> >program `main() {}' and defeats the point of most of the specially named
>> >routines in crt0.c. E.g., there is a special version of getenv() named
>> >_getenv() to avoid the namespace pollution and bloat from getenv(), but
>> >the hack calls getenv() anyway; there are special versions of read() and
>> >write(), but _startup_setlocale() references things in stdio that reference
>> >read() and write().
>>
>> And what? Now too many pgms require proper locale support, even ls,
>> so we can't avoid this thing. Code added regardles of
>> ENABLE_STARTUP_LOCALE set or not, so 'hack' means this variable
>> as I understand and not code added. As I already say,
>> I can revert default case to pick ctype and use variable
>> DISABLE_STARTUP_LOCALE to disable it for debugging purposes.
>aaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!
>Why do we think ls requires this?
It is simple: to display native filenames.
>Because the default locale is 'C', doesn't mean that the default locale
>should not be ISO 8 bit clean.
It is already 8bit clean. You can safely call ctype(>127).
>Also, programs whose output is limited in this fashion should be
>explicitly calling setlocale(), or they are only half-assed in their
>attempt to support internationalization.
Correct ctype != half-assed.
Correct ctype != full i18n
Correct ctype is what user expects at least.
Majority of users use various 8bit charsets and >8bit charsets
isn't commonly used. Why not make life easier for all 8bit charsets
users, if this not affects at all >8bit users?
>In the case that it is explicitly called (ie: programs supposedly using
>these features), then the hack is unnecessary.
And what? Second call does no-op.
>Likewise, if the program is *not* using theses features, then they
>should stick their ugly noses into the tent uninvited.
Users prefers to interact in native language with all programs
which they have. It is hard to explain to user why tcsh reacts
on LANG settings when ls does not.
--
Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed,
ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead -
FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead.
RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849