From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 06:46:26 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9555710C4252; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4015673E91; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-it1-f181.google.com (mail-it1-f181.google.com [209.85.166.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: mmacy) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C96A1B6E7; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-it1-f181.google.com with SMTP id l191-v6so1293181ita.4; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfog/I8q7MMDmP/QKC7QON+8R1OH1NUFlQ5+Am/NzaiisNeMBX0z2 Xz3gfkq4c4X4vmonyyIv0R7dc1CIWEtPHOcpLzk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60jJ4+VEPPE1ck+30bKDOZbqHHcZp9pkvsuDAukdUfXoS4Dnn0vWlcoMA6oTta57bdCeN2PTPRRp3ZiYlstZO8= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1cc7:: with SMTP id c190-v6mr7249138itc.30.1538721985377; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:46:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> In-Reply-To: <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> From: Matthew Macy Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:46:13 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: bc979@lafn.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 06:46:26 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:55 PM Doug Hardie wrote: > > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see = that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as= it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on = boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the = machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfigurati= on (an error prone process when you are tired). > To this day servers ship with bge. My Talos 2 with 2x22x4 P9s has dual onboard bge. -M > I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no provisi= on for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 as 11 doesn= 't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either category. > > -- Doug > > > On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > > > The criteria for exception are: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will b= e > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usab= le. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > > > -- Brooks > > > > --- > > authors: Brooks Davis > > state: feedback > > --- > > > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them befor= e > > FreeBSD 13. > > > > ## Problem Statement > > > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl= `) > > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > > > ## Proposed Solution > > > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. Th= is > > will entail: > > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > > to FreeBSD 12. > > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprec= ated > > devices. > > > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exceptio= n > > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed o= n > > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will b= e > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usab= le. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > ### Exceptions to removal > > > > Device | Reason > > -------|------------------------------------------------- > > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > > > ### Device to be removed > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > ## Final Disposition > > > > TBD > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"