From nobody Wed Jan 10 21:28:16 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T9LWh2VWTz56CbZ for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:28:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick.macklem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com (mail-pf1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T9LWh0crhz4pp4; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:28:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick.macklem@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6d9a795cffbso3404418b3a.0; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:28:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704922111; x=1705526911; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=U7sG11Xuc6omSFFwS58xhzVcqfGQTZRnB4BZPWXHi8o=; b=CxY3j/Qp3CJdljnN4HviPrkXg5F7UQFkYz8Q4w83Yiz8RjjbBrC2KEmXbbsdLIoBpx amPwOPrxcNr5alHrV+2i5nfHELB3WYK195TsiU50v/2D8UmPhkuqbuqCn2VLnFj3keEJ lNGsIXQJLEJiKHi5SRhrX2WtNnL3pzQcEhnNaDX9l8Ygz6azxDrLtG4A2Vq6mPjp9oU4 1hHX3fw0UtfAcW+27DuqPYDKbj7R4fY8cq7FGEoztWfIr4MswnKu5vu/nLz/wHA097xR MrtgqE3P2xN1fVwNrwZQGXY/PB8eoXYMCRrTyTTY8jeklr9OmJsj84cGRZjJwdASOlxz DjqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704922111; x=1705526911; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=U7sG11Xuc6omSFFwS58xhzVcqfGQTZRnB4BZPWXHi8o=; b=BTPTkgQmnsaOVuNrNIVgoVohp6pvkffpaYi3jLExEG/sjDqknsW6nDba0Tj9RZeF9j LQiBBKYKI7wikvXEN4wHsXzgGjHNqT5DX51Cm7HIxIpGkZ9FrUzZT3EitLHMqqCl/wC8 WiX5NbBsCBj0irNzj1awcLmAh2xLMDHDvj7IWfPMdxoRT1+SZlLpoLRJRGnqblKY1ckB W7FctUDoLc3HTOVf15t0N5QjYCMRCtU7PsKrj8mdf6lTnJmvN10gsdYpJBIm57hwKw5B JZ2cq5fePi30RCwyG36WyFKovuyvXdQ5GmxS3s16eYLJMSKZzrW1lIoadsHmJix1fqo+ h7Mw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyfFGH7zS4YVfwja0WKFjXUyrJMQScnrheN14kBcGOglBG59A/d faxeQ/zJPXnZD7/RRNQtm34XNLPAVWCiTX9QaPgi/xmIMA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IETKIm7tMYj/4tJGrUYvxM/uMZkkMp69Z4W0bmXnFSrLbxB2rzeA6ttq8+w7Cfc3V8O0VNEEjx2BMIY7IIsA/o= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2d15:b0:6db:984:8783 with SMTP id fa21-20020a056a002d1500b006db09848783mr939118pfb.6.1704922110712; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:28:30 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2eabfb91-afc3-47f7-98b9-1a1791ae6e7d@app.fastmail.com> <6714298.qJWK8QVVMX@ravel> In-Reply-To: From: Rick Macklem Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:28:16 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 To: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" Cc: Olivier Certner , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T9LWh0crhz4pp4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:44=E2=80=AFPM Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote: > > Olivier Certner writes: > > > I've never found any compelling reason in most uses to enable "atime", = except > > perhaps local mail but as addressed in other answers it is a relic of = the pa > > st mostly irrelevant today. And its drawbacks are well known and can b= e seri > > ous. > > When UNIX ran on PDP-11s and disk pack sizes were measured in the > tens of megabytes, atime was very helpful in determining which files > were likely candidates for archiving to tape when the disk was > getting full. And in the Usenet days it was common to mount > /var/spool/news noatime, which eliminated a *lot* of meta-info > write traffic. > > These days, other than /var/mail, I can't think of a compelling use > for it. I've been running my Plan 9 systems with atime disabled > ever since fossil arrived (decades) without any impact. > > I don't see any issue with making noatime the default. For those > that must have it, /var/mail can be carved out as a distinct > filesystem and mounted appropriately. Just choosing the last message in the thread... I do not have a strong opinion w.r.t. atime, but I do believe that changing the default would be a POLA violation. Please look at this email thread, where the opinion w.r.t. atime seemed quite different: freebsd-hackers@ Oct. 5, 2023 Subject: copy_file_range() doesn't update the atime of an empty file I'd put a url here, but gmail always puts the subject line in here when I copy/paste the url? Basically I did not think that updating the infd's atime when copy_file_ran= ge() did not actually copy any data, but the collective disagreed, so I patched the NFSv4 client. (I do not know if markj@'s patch did get committed). They also collectively thought that Linux did a poor job w.r.t. atime. rick > > --lyndon >