From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 02:45:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE621E6; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:45:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0728FC08; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:45:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa02.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAG2jN90031141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:45:24 -0600 Received: from [10.0.0.103] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.309.2; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:45:23 -0600 Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: Boot Loader Interface Fixes MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:45:21 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <8706EBE6-0068-49F5-9654-D0F3EE050331@fisglobal.com> References: <9643EC52-E905-43FB-8B18-5EF052271725@fisglobal.com> To: Daniel Eischen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8185, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-11-15_07:2012-11-15,2012-11-15,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: Adrian Chadd , Devin Teske , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:45:25 -0000 On Nov 15, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Devin Teske wrote: >=20 >> Hi All, >>=20 >> I'm back with more changes to the boot loader menu. >>=20 >> First, don't panic! >>=20 >> Second, calm down! >>=20 >> Let's go over where we've been so-far so we don't repeat it here. >>=20 >> 1. Changing the order of items should be avoided as it "moves the goal p= osts" >>=20 >> Agreed. This is not always avoidable, but should be avoided if possible. >>=20 >> 2. Hiding "Single User" mode behind a submenu is bad. >>=20 >> Agreed. It's been suggested, "why can't it be an action item?" I've thou= ght about it and it doesn't seem right to be an action item because it's a = setting in loader.conf(5). However, nobody said it can't be both an action = item _and_ a boolean option. >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> Now that we've covered those basics, let me explain the current situatio= n: >>=20 >> If you are a proponent of the "goal posts" argument, then you may find y= ourself astonished one day to find that the following procedure does not wo= rk: >>=20 >> + Boot to beastie menu >> + Press V to enable verbosity >> + Press Enter to boot >>=20 >> The reason the above may fail and violate POLA is because of the improve= ments made in SVN r241523. Since r241523, adding something like: >>=20 >> boot_verbose=3D"YES" >>=20 >> to loader.conf(5) will not cause the boot menu to display a default ON-s= tatus for the Verbose boot option. In this case, booting and pressing V wil= l disable verbose boot. >>=20 >> Given that all boot options in the menu are dynamically-initializing and= will inherit the states of their respective options from loader.conf(5), a= new problem emerges: >>=20 >> Q. How does one go about restoring the defaults in the event that a sys= tem doesn't boot? >>=20 >> Furthermore, the person may not know what the defaults are. >>=20 >> The need arises to have a "Load Defaults" option. >>=20 >> However, the introduction of this new menu item would both crowd the mai= n menu and (unless appended to the end) violate the first rule of not re-or= dering items (which we just argued that it doesn't matter if you memorize t= he numbers, their initial state may be negated from what the user expects). >>=20 >> The latter arguments of crowded main-menu and that the memorization of n= umbers is broken right now brings up the good idea of utilizing submenus (r= easoning that if we have to make a change, best to make a change that can l= ast). >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> I want to move the boot options into a submenu. This submenu will have a= ll the boot options you see today on the main menu. >>=20 >> At the same time, add a "Load Defaults" action item for resetting the va= rious boot options to their hard-coded defaults (overriding loader.conf(5) = inheritance). >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> While proposing this, I realize that we need an easy way to get to singl= e-user mode. So in-addition to be able to access SUM as a boolean option in= the "Boot Options" submenu, I propose adding a new "alternate boot" menu i= tem to the main menu. >>=20 >> At the same time, I've recognized the need to have more feedback in the = "Boot" option. For example, it would be nice if setting boot_single=3D"YES"= in loader.conf(5) that the first menu item said "Boot Single User [Enter]"= -- vociferating the default boot action. Meanwhile, the "Alternate Boot" (= not actually titled that) gives a quick and easy way of booting Multi-User = in the case of boot_single=3D"YES" or vice-versa. >=20 > I always disliked adding the large FreeBSD logo and beastie > to the boot screen. Nearly 3/4 of the real-estate is that. >=20 echo "loader_logo=3Dnone" >> /boot/loader.conf echo "loader_brand=3Dnone" >> /boot/loader.conf --=20 Devin > I'd rather put all the information on one screen and do > away with the large logo and beastie. Perhaps there > should be an option to "6: Show Large Logo and Beastie" ;-) >=20 > --=20 > DE _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. 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