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Date:      Sat, 07 Aug 1999 00:31:49 -0700
From:      "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
To:        brian@pobox.com
Cc:        freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Marketing FreeBSD / FreeBSD as a pr 
Message-ID:  <4605.934011109@localhost>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Aug 1999 22:54:08 PDT." <19990807055408.22509.rocketmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> 

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> a) If helping people help you is such a burden, have some of
> these people you've helped along help the next people.

Those people should always feel free to step forward, but please also
bear in mind the fact that we seem to get flack when core *doesn't*
respond to things like this personally and so it's really a lose-lose
situation with that particular solution.  I imagine this particular
member of core could stand to be a little more generous in his own
assumptions when responding to such things, however.

> b) You never ASKED for my qualifications. Instead you assumed I
> was a yutz and began making personal attacks.

I never assumed or said that you were a yutz any more than I assumed
or said that you were a rocket scientist, and I think we're somewhat
in disagreement when it comes to defining a "personal attack" as well.

To my way of thinking, a personal attack would have been to state
outright that your parentage was suspect or that your entire existence
was a waste of perfectly good organic molecules or anything else not
dealing with the points you raised and instead shifting entirely to
you, the person.  Perhaps some of the analogies I drew were harshly
drawn, but at all times what I've sought to "attack" have been your
IDEAS and/or the manner in which you chose to present them, not you,
Mr. Brian McGroarty, as a person.

To state this further, if I can not be in vehement disagreement with
you over some set of issues without you taking that disagreement as a
personal attack then we're truly in trouble as far as our future
communications go, and far more trouble than any that might be caused
by my "inability to deal with people" or a lack of "civility."  I put
those words in quotes because these are also mailing lists with a lot
of engineers on them and engineers are not known or even particularly
valued for their subtlety - if they think your code or your ideas
suck, they'll say so and be done with it, nothing personal and all
that.  I didn't like the way you raised some of your points, I didn't
like the fact that you were rehashing old recycled topics without
adding anything particularly new that I could see (at least from my
perspective at the moment), I particularly didn't like the attack on
the imagery (rescinded or not) since I personally regard that whole
debate as a truly singular waste of time and energy, but that still
has NOTHING to do with how I feel about you personally and if I met
you next week at some conference, I'd be the first to buy you a beer,
shoot you a grin and say "So, how are those articles you're writing
coming along, Brian?", just as I'd do with someone I'd just finished
having some mutual love-fest with in another mailing list.  I don't
take strong disagreement with my points of view personally and you
honestly shouldn't either, especially when it comes to disagreements
expressed via email since you can't read my facial expressions or hear
my tone of voice and the same holds true for any emails you send.

> I've participated in the production of nearly 20 software
> products for companies such as Microsoft, Midway, Interplay,
> Atari and Lego Media and have had involvement in marketing and
> production work for the Chicago Bulls, High Voltage Software,
> GNB Battery and numerous smaller clients.

Well, now that's a very impressive resume' and certainly one which
helps to differentiate you from the more run-of-the-mill advocates who
suggest publically or privately everything from FreeBSD condoms
(smooth or ribbed I dunno, they usually don't go into detail) to latex
daemon-suits with horns, modelled in our catalog by none other than
Michelle Pfeiffer herself, of course.  All fine(?) ideas in their own
right but not very practical when stacked against all the other
promotional items we could be spending money on and, hopefully, making
enough back on to not go broke in the process.

In any case, given that you now know where some of the hot-buttons for
us are (the daemon stays, etc.), what would you suggest as the next
retail packaging improvement, understanding also, of course, the fact
that we have a limited range of product to offer and can only package
it in so many ways?  In terms of CD products there's the 6 CD FreeBSD
toolkit, the 4 CD base product and the occasional developer's 2 CD
snapshot.  In terms of "other" items, we have FreeBSD stickers, case
plate icons, T-shirts in various sizes and colors, polo shirts, denim
jackets, baseball caps, mousepads (new), stainless steel "starbucks
style" coffee mugs (new), stuffed daemon plushes (various sizes), and
one FreeBSD book.  Not all of these items are practical for most
channel partners, of course, I list them merely for completeness's
sake.

The only "bundle" we currently offer is the book+base product+toolkit,
known as the "FreeBSD Power Pak" (I'm not in love with that name but
have no truly better suggestions to offer the sales department so I
can't really complain, either), the rough appearance of which can be
seen at http://www.freebsdmall.com/software/#bsdpak (though the box is
somewhat more substantial than its image indicates).  Long planned but
not yet done is some sort of "desktop pro" bundle with Applixware for
FreeBSD (done) and at least one other thing to round it out.  Some
desktop product which just hasn't been ported or written yet, perhaps,
or a book on using FreeBSD especially on the desktop, listing what
sorts of applications to get and whatever other nifty bits of
information might be germin to the desktop user, that would complete
the bundle for us.  Even more nebulous is the "Server pro" bundle, one
of the original components being an SSL capable web server which has
now been somewhat overshadowed by its freeware counterparts and making
it less desirable as a cost item.  That leaves us with a very empty
plate for the Server Pro bundle at the moment. :)

We're also not total yutzs ourselves, it should be pointed out, and
we're now into retail channels like Ingram and CompUSA, with plans to
expand much more aggressively into Japan and China than we have
previously (not to mention Europe).  While I can't disclose actual
sales figures, I can say that the graph is still climbing nicely and
there have been quite a few PowerPak sitings at major chain stores now
that we finally got into the large channels.  Perhaps we can reap the
benefits of being a fairly unique product amongst the sea of Linux
products one typically finds there, and perhaps with the aid of your
WELCOME ideas in the areas of packaging, imagerly and advertising we
can do even better.  You've gotten my attention and I'm all ears, the
sincerity of that statement hopefully born out by the level of detail
I've taken pains to include in this message.

- Jordan


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