From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 10 18:51:43 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13597106567A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:51:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (cl-43.dus-01.de.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a01:198:200:2a::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773428FC0A for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: from roadrunner.spoerlein.net (e180187137.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.180.187.137]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n0AIpcnn032462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:51:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: from roadrunner.spoerlein.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by roadrunner.spoerlein.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n0AIpatr093504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:51:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: (from uqs@localhost) by roadrunner.spoerlein.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n0AIpZXb093502; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:51:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:51:35 +0100 From: Ulrich Spoerlein To: perryh@pluto.rain.com Message-ID: <20090110185135.GB83079@roadrunner.spoerlein.net> Mail-Followup-To: perryh@pluto.rain.com, rick-freebsd2008@kiwi-computer.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20090107181032.GA2808@rebelion.Sisis.de> <1231398405.2842.1.camel@daemon2.partygaming.local> <20090108080708.GE1462@roadrunner.spoerlein.net> <4966e5b7.sTBBp+JY+DDMKG47%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20090109204014.GA83381@keira.kiwi-computer.com> <496892aa.n9QVqyhWypsSmeIU%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <496892aa.n9QVqyhWypsSmeIU%perryh@pluto.rain.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: rick-freebsd2008@kiwi-computer.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /dev/dsp* & /dev/audio* devices not present X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:51:43 -0000 I cannot really comment on the devfs(4) design issues, and quite frankly it hasn't bothered my thus far. Just another little quirk you get to remember. On Sat, 10.01.2009 at 04:20:58 -0800, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > That the code faithfully adheres to the design does not guarantee > that the design is flawless. IMO it violates POLA, if not POSIX, > for open(2) to succeed when applied to a name which, according to > readdir(2), does not exist; and it is suboptimal to have "stealth" > drivers whose availability for use cannot be discovered by examining > /dev. You forgot directories with --x permissions. You can open many files inside them, but readdir(2) will get you nowhere. So this is a poor standard by which to judge devfs(4) device cloning. Cheers, Ulrich Spoerlein -- It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt.