From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 9 04:55:02 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AF1106566B for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2011 04:55:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4378FC0C for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2011 04:55:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so4856936iwn.13 for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:55:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:x-openpgp-key-id:x-openpgp-key-fingerprint :x-openpgp-key-url; bh=RS7A4/j5yVkwitY5nKTMMNPs/AMsYcfTg0Iw+PVCSpc=; b=DnetmXPb00ILXkqGZqbI9pIM2Y+Fe0WQad5CP9yI4wSqn2FYGZ3q87lUwSKkMpqzyK eUz0nvQLWG+tUaOWxkaRvf2UKOPOrI1iIG3zH5L3bNlYxAj468J5j4FCfNjzXaDZeID/ Jdfer//nCWAh2nLpWg8UfyOJvvlKRKbHpJ444= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-openpgp-key-id :x-openpgp-key-fingerprint:x-openpgp-key-url; b=XLouTqCCn7OYuSLxQ1R3Bmdhz/KP0QMy7jxA8ZFU0FAsJn2l/ZOl0WgL9T/Abh9koV WBqFVmioJs2OpC+mU+TFzOhnZifNZEN/JKRUXltge6huTSDDEWSdjXsP6WrcKLQF9+B7 tdeyviyKhyj7uD8APsu60FGmcst7U3LLa1YYo= Received: by 10.42.136.71 with SMTP id s7mr3761132ict.476.1302324901711; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-99-190-87-163.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net [99.190.87.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wo11sm2178117icb.8.2011.04.08.21.54.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "J. Hellenthal" Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p394st1Z008584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 9 Apr 2011 00:54:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhell@DataIX.net) Received: (from jhell@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p394ssL3008583; Sat, 9 Apr 2011 00:54:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhell@DataIX.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 00:54:54 -0400 From: "J. Hellenthal" To: Sergey Vinogradov Message-ID: <20110409045453.GA91335@DataIX.net> References: <4D9EFAC6.4020906@lazybytes.org> <4D9F2B8D.3040104@lazybytes.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D9F2B8D.3040104@lazybytes.org> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x89D8547E X-OpenPGP-Key-Fingerprint: 85EF E26B 07BB 3777 76BE B12A 9057 8789 89D8 547E X-OpenPGP-Key-URL: http://bit.ly/0x89D8547E Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Mike Oliver Subject: Re: ifconfig output: ipv4 netmask format X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 04:55:02 -0000 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 07:36:45PM +0400, Sergey Vinogradov wrote: >On 08.04.2011 19:23, Mike Oliver wrote: >>On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 08:08, Sergey Vinogradov wr= ote: >>>Hi, hackers. >>>I have a question: why ipv4 netmask is displayed by ifconfig in hex form= at? >>>Isn't dot-decimal notation more human-readable? Will the attached patch >>>break something in the very bad way? >> >>Who's using IPv4 anymore? ;-) >Long live IPv4! :) > >>Seriously though, if you give a small amount of time to learning the >>hex -> binary translations then you would see how convenient it is to >>use hex rather than decimal when representing what are ultimately >>binary numbers. >> >>See this blog entry by Jeff Doyle... >> >>http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/how-are-your-hexadecimal-skills >The article is great, but dot-decimal notation is de-facto standard >for stand-alone network mask representation. Like CIDR is standard for >IP blocks represenation. That's the reason I've started this thread. >And despite the greatness of the article you've mentioned, I think >it's a bad itea to hardcode its URL into ifconfig's output. You know, >for every single user reading it, and choosing the "way of hex" ;) > This is the year 2011 right ? when are we going to support new users rather than supporting old outdated washed up "scripts" ? I for one am for this change, given that there are lots of users from the PC-BSD community that do not read hexadecimal, octal and other such forms like a programmer does. And just because the change can be made does not mean that a compatibility shim cannot be put into place that restores the old functionality. It is time to stop living in the past and start thinking about the future. These types of things are what causes forks of projects to happen ultimately yielding in less contributors and developers. I for one hate to see things like that happen. --=20 J. 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