From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 12 00:40:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F809106566C for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:40:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A20E1570D4; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:40:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EBDC06F.6020907@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:40:15 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111110 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Schouten References: <20111110123919.GF2164@hoeg.nl> <4EBC4B6E.4060607@FreeBSD.org> <20111111112821.GP2164@hoeg.nl> In-Reply-To: <20111111112821.GP2164@hoeg.nl> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The strangeness called `sbin' X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:40:19 -0000 On 11/11/2011 03:28, Ed Schouten wrote: > Hello Doug, > > * Doug Barton , 20111110 23:08: >> This particular proposal though I personally am confused about, and I >> apologize if I missed something obvious, but what is the value of making >> this change? I've read the thread so far, and I understand that the >> hysterical raisins that prompted the creation of sbin may or may not >> still apply, but I haven't yet understood what we would gain by moving >> everything. > > Simplicity. Personally I don't see that as a good enough reason to deal with the disruption that this change would cause. > Right now we have binaries executed by users installed in > five different places. I give bachelor courses on (embedded) > Linux/FreeBSD systems administration and software development and > explaining to them why it is done this way is getting tiresome. If it takes you more than 2 minutes, you're doing it wrong. :) > But the point is: there are quite some tools in */sbin that should be > moved to */bin. I can at least point out 15 of them. Why don't we discuss those specifics first? > Moving these tools > around requires the same amount of effort as simply getting rid of sbin. For those individual tools, yes. But you're discounting the collateral damage. > If I have to decide on which of these to work, I'd choose the latter, > because as far as I know, sbin has no reason to exist anyway. > > Also, it probably causes even less of a burden on our users, because > `make installworld' will simply force them to migrate, while if we move > binaries around, we can only hope that the user runs `make delete-old'. Um, if 'make installworld' were to delete existing stuff that would be an overwhelming POLA violation. Doug -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/