Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:32:42 -0500 From: "David Nobles" <DNobles@dnobles.com> To: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: RE: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah (with common goals) Message-ID: <008401bf2497$7be09280$28fd29a6@arl_6884.mcit.com> In-Reply-To: <199911011756.MAA29704@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Having attempted to install Linux and FreeBSD unsuccessfully to date I would certainly vote for a more "plug n' play" type of configuration. My main motivation was to learn more about Unix and since the site that host my web site is on FreeBSD I thought that made the most sense. I don't have hours to play with this stuff so give me an easy, basic install. I can then take a little time each night or on the weekends to learn more as I expand on the basic configuration, change settings and add features. But right now all I have are Linux & FreeBSD CDs setting next to a box running Win98. I'd love to be able to spend the time RTFMs, Howtos, all the emails on the mailing lists, etc. but it's just not gonna happen right now. I don't think I'm alone in this. For those working with some flavor of Unix or looking to, they can find the block of time. Unfortunately IMHO your losing a large chunk of people, frustrated with Windows and curious about the alternatives. Just 2 cents from a newbie trying to get a basic system up so I can try the other things I read about on this list and learn more. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of FreeBSD Bob Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:57 PM To: iratus@home.com Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah (with common goals) > >> I still stand by my contention that we need something for the > >> joe enduser crowd, rather than rely on Penguin Basic Training, > >> (although that method seems to work, too). > >What you need is documentation that not only tells you how to configure > >but also explains what it is your going to have when you get through. I think this has merit. Something more that just a common Readme, but with some steering indications of what the basic system can do, and what it can do with added ``features'' as Blue is want to say. Some of that is done in various docs and readmes, but it seems a little scattered here and there. > >It would also help quite a bit if there were some information about how > >and why this configuration was established in the first place. This is covered in the historical tidbits, but is, perhaps, not as well brought out to the newbie. The handbook provides some insights. > >Following the manuals and book helps you get the job done but after your > >through, you don't know what you have or in some cases what to do with > >it. There are lots of basic books, a fair number of BSD things, plus the cannonical BSD bibles from Berkeley, all of which are good reading. Sometimes, the newbie seems to have trouble finding it all or wading through it from the newbie perspective, since it was written for the professionals. > I really don't want to start a flame war but you might consider the > following since what you seek is there: The Complete FreeBSD by Greg Lehey, > almost any basic book on Unix as BSD is a well know unix version, the > FreeBSD handbook which is included with the various distributions (2.*, 3.* > etc), all of the man pages (though I agree they are a handful just to > interpret in some cases), if you are headed for guruhood a look at the > original 4.4BSD series is nice, and a search of Amazon.com will show you > more then I think just about anybody could remember. As an aside, if you > don't know what you have after you are done perhaps time with any of the > aforesaid books should be spent BEFORE you install. Its really all there if > you just look, though it has been my experiance that "handholding" is > probably in short supply though IMHO, this isn't that big a deal. Just my > 2cents worth. Jeff Phillips No flames, whatever. My ol' dusty, motheaten Inet Flak Suit probably would not even fit, anymore, as the ``wisdom of age'' has rather rotundified me innards, to put it mildly. The constructive discussion is what I am after. The FreeBSD handbook, is probably our cannon from which to start. Lehey's book is a close second. Manpages are never a place from which to start. They are a place from which to admin and userspeak, in currency. Something is needed a little before the manpages. The manpages are the cannon for the user and the admin, AFTER the machine is up and running, in real time. The Berkeley bibles, i.e., the smm/ps1/usd suite are usually written at a more professional level than Joe enduser has, although the usd sections (particularly 1) can be helpful. Many/most Joe endusers will have a hard time at a deeper level than that, unless they already come from a more experienced background, compared to the point+click kind. Still, I get a sense that, to put it all together, and it is a rightly complex matter for the newbie, one also needs some kind of a hands on system to paw with ALONGSIDE the cannon. For the sake of discussion, what pops to mind would be a rather limited system with only the basics for getting up a minimal machine, or a minimal machine with X (even that is probably more complicated than the newbie needs to start with), and then running through various scripts and the like to get the real-time feet wet. The system must be bulletproof, and come up on anything running dos/windoz, and allow controlled interactivity without nuking the original OS's (as good bad or ugly as they may be). This has to be a load and go type of thing that even the most geen newbie can get rolling, with minimal effort. In some respects, it almost becomes a distance education sort of thing, with remote-hands-on training. Then, when some minimal expertise is obtained, let the newbie out on the race track, to go it for real. In days past, we used to do that kind of thing by 1 on 1 mentoring around the consoles in a dark room, late at night. Nowadays, we need to adjust that approach for Joe enduser out in Timbuktu with only a 9.6K modem to a slow email-electronic mentor. Nowadays, the drop-in CD becomes the quasi-mentor. Good discussion, and I appreciate all those who contributed to it. Maybe some good will come of it...... Thanks Bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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