From nobody Wed Sep 22 13:28:15 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5803C17D6FCA; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:28:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDzdF23WLz3Hg0; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:28:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632317297; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=VFYhEwdcWBoNk8TuKobMOlmag7b6GSt2qUrL9E6XPV8=; b=NjCyeaJSLKNCPXcXwteju5kKlw1ZIE2NAH4emmy3XGp/MmiGUFXKr/kgCtHd1LavX5Q8pR Pza1XBPzuNvn3OhMNpNZME5ITc6GGNNmC4sjGd5iB43OPklvAawH3A1/3NtghWL41slN+P svFvqedCRKMMxtL8CBD0LwphekMhamR/rBvukURpBzwG2y+Royx2pfsWMcNXwo/xA0TjNG weOUtpfj9+9B/UCjs0HwqqSz7hpnGOJzWApOvlz/gUqYxcZEEv42RXhlBcWY3O84HK4UJt bEpdf+sOE6M1O5S0qQiPS/0RuotytXtnvIIhqWjF5fXRIhd73wyRd72uKgGnxA== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1471) id 3C023119B5; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:28:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:28:15 +0200 From: Daniel Ebdrup Jensen To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, "arch@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922132815.ngag32vrwqr73gjn@nerd-thinkpad.local> Mail-Followup-To: Daniel Ebdrup Jensen , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, "arch@FreeBSD.org" References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xgscufkufjsautop" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632317297; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=VFYhEwdcWBoNk8TuKobMOlmag7b6GSt2qUrL9E6XPV8=; b=yxJhoH2ktjDlQNN6IRydtkTR5GhznIk1sbQ6xsYsRwW4tphoVW1UkAHiu8NzAiX4cpIlnC RC8zB7/eRMbeeY41fnRnL3r0Dz87xzvRQ/e8RKLRFJIEy4eBvrCyAM+id1Dl8YRc8+34jv 75OBGqlUqlMwv2ZyXv4FZGqdcRGIPiVQ56BNaxOWk5LFX5w/beCYiBejd+fFmctiMdjd8R Qhtdv4Btx79ouCQ2lRvt2HDBvrTPN7mStT7tejw0HmLay3PE66c1RVv/XOP0MTUVdJtOZt qK10mf7QxUv0sOJZ96HbGRSR4lGoAJfAYX+eH9X0sqRRJ8NGDQXubYCp2eNq8Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632317297; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=tMYgK/hTGME7kPSLWg9qwZRqzMbMpcNuo+X/7i/arS61DZi5lTQZbBiyvEjM13IioEynPD Z3kJgmqy+6PNJFDm4FqfNIRdZDgaIHkiB8PMujHfhPH4ZNCQPSYYbyNKWGorptY/ZOUpBw jBDPQk4wDuhKcYWCJedsORLwFXMH6sGBKYdwLV1Pq9m2ya4rK322I0AyagAwhOP1kGIGiq tKQwHqgjly/dxQ7Xs2kAxBGkQjAnkN/ranAE6bAeGaB82GSbwJ53aG1MzHYu2dpQz6UBbs yLbzpw/VGOCQ+M+oK5h37MjTQ6QFLudAwVFpg/NFq0EQiwp+Z1Un5Yf3oWJiRw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --xgscufkufjsautop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 01:03:54PM +0200, Mariusz Zaborski wrote: >+1 from me. > >On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 12:31, Chris Stephan wrot= e: > >> I completely agree. It will save me the =E2=80=98/bin/sh=E2=80=99 at the= beginning of each >> =E2=80=98su -=E2=80=98 session. Also, it will simplify building extra sm= all FreeBSD images, >> allowing an easier removal of =E2=80=98csh=E2=80=99. >> >> I use csh from time to time, but I do wish it would take a much more >> explicit action so my brain has switched over to =E2=80=98csh mode=E2=80= =99. I won=E2=80=99t lie >> that I=E2=80=99ve pasted script into my terminal and spent time troubles= hooting why >> the commands didn=E2=80=99t work only to realize I forgot to change to /= bin/sh >> first. >> >> Chris Stephan >> >> Sent from FreeBSD >> ________________________________ >> From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org >> on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM >> To: current@freebsd.org ; arch@FreeBSD.org >> >> Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root >> >> Hello, >> >> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >> >> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >> shell >> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >> >> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >> interactive mode: >> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other >> shells >> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDIT= OR) >> * support for history as described by POSIX. >> >> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >> propose to >> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >> MFCed) >> >> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make t= his >> proposal happen. >> >> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> Best regards, >> Baptiste >> >> Hi folks, I generally speaking don't mind making the Almquist shell into the default shell for root in FreeBSD, especially after the many commits that have gone into the tree in the last while, which helps to make it into a shell that can be used interactively. :) As a tcsh user, however, I do feel like I have to point out that the way to tell csh apart from other shells is that its default unprivileged prompt is % rather than $ - though I see how that's not immediately obvious if you don't interact with it except when you're root. ;) (The reason I'm responding to this mesasge instead of the one that oshogbo@ responded to is that that one doesn't appear to have been received by my MUA, nor - as far as I can tell - has it been received by mlmmj, so I can't even grab the raw file and tell my MUA to use it as an mbox, for me to respond to.) 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