From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 17 22:03:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23246 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@mindbender.headcandy.com [199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23214; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09210; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199607180502.WAA09210@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu, Domingo Siliceo , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 17 Jul 96 12:02:32 -0700. <1073.837630152@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:02:36 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> learn all the quirkiness of Unix. NT and OS/2 are just better >> solutions than Unix for many of these people. And NT is a better >> server product in so many ways than OS/2. Plus, NT is a better >> business "workstation" OS than Unix because of all the business >> applications it runs. >While I don't disagree with any of your major points, and agree that >NT is *definitely* something we should be afraid (very afraid) of, I >think you missed one important point about it which Microsoft will be >the last to mention in their sales hype: Cost. Actually, corporate cost of ownership is measured in some very strange ways that can sometimes make some really odd choices the least expensive. Support costs alone can make something free cost a lot more than something "expensive". Not speaking of anything specific here, just in general. >Task: Create a small ISP using 3 or 4 PCs which will provide web >service, POP email accounts, News, DNS, dial-in SLIP/PPP and general >routing. Say we're also projecting between 500-1000 users as our [...] I can see we're already going off in different directions here. I was *not* speaking of a server OS specifically for an ISP. That is a very small share of the market server OS's are purchased for. The original poster said he was "still trying to understand why people think they have to run NT." He also added "there are other options, like FreeBSD and OS/2," which leads me to believe he indeed intended to include markets not traditionally Unix-like. I was speaking of the broader market in general. Corporations that do a lot of "office work". Where they need to do a lot of application serving and sharing, print sharing, file sharing, secure access control to all that, an easy admin model, etc. Maybe deal out a few dial-in lines for their sales people out in the fields with laptops. >Now, go price 3 copies of NT Server plus the 1000 user commercial pop [...] >off). See the total you're quoted. Suffer heart failure. Be revived >by paramedics. Send $39.95 from your hospital bed to Walnut Creek >CDROM for *one* copy of FreeBSD and swear off Microsoft forever. :-) I agree completely. A small two or three-man-shop ISP is the very definition of a good application for FreeBSD or NetBSD. Of course, *we* know that they are even a great candidate for *any* size ISP. though some are more skeptical. I couldn't agree more. There isn't a market better suited for a solid free Unix, IMHO. Especially when they have a networking code base as excellent as the free BSDs. There are lots of other related areas where a free Unix, or even a commercial Unix, might be the best choice. Maybe some kind of network provider. Maybe a heavy-hit monster database server (although Microsoft has been getting lots of good press on their database performance). Maybe a huge simulation engine. Maybe just a monster compute server. However, I wasn't talking specifically about ISPs. I agree with you on ISPs. I was speaking of the entire server OS market as a whole. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------