From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 10 11:45:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gamma.star.spb.ru (gamma.star.spb.ru [217.195.79.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD7737B42A for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:45:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from green.star.spb.ru (green.star.spb.ru [217.195.79.10]) by gamma.star.spb.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA83851; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:43:50 +0300 (MSK) Received: from 217.195.79.241 ([217.195.79.241]) by green.star.spb.ru with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 10SY0LRC; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:42:55 +0300 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:43:40 +0300 From: "Nickolay A. Kritsky" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal Reply-To: "Nickolay A.Kritsky" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <471838052.20020310224340@internethelp.ru> To: "Mike Meyer" Cc: Paul Robinson , Terry Lambert , Peter Leftwich , Miguel Mendez , Cliff Sarginson , , Mike Meyer Subject: Re[6]: http://users.uk.freebsd.org/~juha/ In-reply-To: <15499.44224.110718.925695@guru.mired.org> References: <20020306191854.C2150-100000@earl-grey.cloud9.net> <3C86C11C.8A31C8BB@mindspring.com> <15494.52528.125952.145716@guru.mired.org> <3C86D7D6.C11D7E@mindspring.com> <15494.58407.33613.314390@guru.mired.org> <8457986570.20020307135407@internethelp.ru> <15495.57385.993281.469551@guru.mired.org> <20020308113108.G32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <15497.12783.643757.175742@guru.mired.org> <20020309144158.K32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <15498.28088.976841.7441@guru.mired.org> <3C8A75A1.C567BB02@mindspring.com> <15498.34475.395754.932338@guru.mired.org> <3C8AFE22.72C005FA@mindspring.com> <3C8B0473.D544FB8@mindspring.com> <20020310164125.P32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <1136028208.20020310182327@internethelp.ru> <1505738070.20020310181837@internethelp.ru> <15499.44224.110718.925695@guru.mired.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Mike, Sunday, March 10, 2002, 9:58:08 PM, you wrote: MM> Hello all, MM> Nickolay A.Kritsky types: >> Hello Mike, >> MM> You can learn that using your own system. Wanna learn how to break >> MM> into a generic install of FreeBSD? Install one, and go to work on >> MM> it. It's no less interesting/fun/educational than trying to break into >> MM> someone elses, and a lot less likely to get you into trouble. >> If I want to learn how to break into a generic install of FreeBSD, I >> would follow your advice. But what if I want to learn how to break >> into non-generic (web-hosting, complex mail server, load balancing >> server) computer system installed on highly non-generic hardware (HP, >> IBM, Cisco) with IDS'es, firewalls, sysadmins reading their logs and >> sniffing interfaces? I cannot say which task is more educational, but the >> second is much more fun/interesting. For me. MM> So you're basically stealing computer time for "joy riding". If you MM> really wanted to learn about those things, you could probably do it MM> without breaking the law. Most of the sysadmins I've known wouldn't MM> mind you trying to break in, so long as you told them about it before MM> and afterwards. In fact, the policy for the more englightened of them MM> was that the first person to report a hole granting a privilege was to MM> give the person that privilege permanently. Sorry, but my English is not very good. My dictionary translates "joy-riding" as something like "stealing other people's car and driving it as a madman". Did I understand you right? If yes, than I think that you got me wrong. Hacking other people's systems isn't more interesting because it breaks some laws. It is more interesting, just because it is harder. I like hard work. What about "most sysadmins wouldn't mind... etc" - let's make an experiment. I will make such proposal to one or more sysadmin chosen randomly, and see what they would answer. I am a newbie in computer science and haven't tried such scenario yet. That could be interesting!!! >> BTW, do you really think, that all that is called "illegal" must be >> avoided by any means possible? No offense meant. I just want to >> understand your way of thinking? MM> No, I don't think that's the case. On the other hand, I know what I MM> had to go through to get access to strange hardware, and it just MM> wasn't that painfull. All it took was some balls and respect. I think I will change my first question. If stealing cpu cycles wasn't illegal, would you do this to get access to strange hardware? ;------------------------------------------- ; NKritsky ; mailto:nkritsky@internethelp.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message