From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 05:13:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FF737B401 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tcoip.com.br (erato.tco.net.br [200.220.254.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0F843FA3 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:13:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@tcoip.com.br) Received: from tcoip.com.br ([10.0.2.6]) by mail.tcoip.com.br (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2RD7i911343; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:07:44 -0300 Message-ID: <3E82F7A0.2020604@tcoip.com.br> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:07:44 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030326 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pt-br, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Khon References: <20030327020402.T64602-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <3E82B795.DDB0C6A4@mindspring.com> <20030327150313.A8897@iclub.nsu.ru> In-Reply-To: <20030327150313.A8897@iclub.nsu.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-31.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 1:1 threading. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:13:43 -0000 Max Khon wrote: > hi, there! > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 12:34:29AM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >>>>After reading your 1:1 threading code, I think you needn't >>>>hack current KSE code to build your own 1:1 threading code. >>>>Our code allow you to do this, actully, it's my earlier >>>>idea to let 1:1 be implemented in our M:N code base, but never >>>>had told this to julian or others. >>> >>>It was actually done outside of KSE on purpose. It keeps the API simpler >>>and cleaner. It keeps the implementation cleaner. It keeps it out of the >>>majority of the KSE code paths aside from thread_suspend and related >>>code. >>> >>>I wanted something small and stable that built on top of KSE provided >>>primitives but did not actually use the KSE apis. This makes it easier >>>for KSE to continue growing and changing while the 1:1 code remains >>>simple. It also removes some of the cost associated with doing KSE. >> >>This isn't really a legitimate argument. > > > Seconded. do you have numbers that clearly show that using Julian's approach > leads to serious performance penalty? Using KSE APIs is not that difficult > as far as I understand, so why we need to introduce more hacks? As much as I'd prefer the 1:1 threading to use as much of the KSE code as possible, Jeff's decision wasn't related to performance issues. What Jeff wanted to do is to _avoid_ using as much of the KSE API as possible so his code wouldn't get in the way of that API, with two obvious benefits: 1) Changes to that API (and there have been some in the past) won't affect his 1:1 threading code and, thus, won't upset real applications using that threading. 2) His 1:1 threading code won't slow down further KSE development nor influence any changes to the KSE API. The reason I personally prefer otherwise is so that (1) above won't be true. Ie, any bugs or performance issues introduced in the KSE code *will* affect real applications, so that they can be detected and fixed. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Gerencia de Operacoes Divisao de Comunicacao de Dados Coordenacao de Seguranca TCO Fones: 55-61-313-7654/Cel: 55-61-9618-0904 E-mail: Daniel.Capo@tco.net.br Daniel.Sobral@tcoip.com.br dcs@tcoip.com.br Outros: dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@notorious.bsdconspiracy.net A lady stockholder quite hetera Decided her fortune to bettera: On the floor, quite unclad, She successively had Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, et cetera...