From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 03:19:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6091016A4B3; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep11-int.chello.nl (amsfep11-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7455243FAF; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep11-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030919101944.GIGJ4496.amsfep11-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:19:44 +0200 Message-ID: <3F6AD7F4.9060304@sitetronics.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:18:28 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert References: <3F6AD3C8.A9940709@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3F6AD3C8.A9940709@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Michal Pasternak cc: Nik Clayton cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: Sorry about sysinstall. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:19:47 -0000 Terry Lambert wrote: >John Baldwin wrote: > > > [big snip of irrelevant stuff] > >To me, it doesn't matter *how* the FreeBSD got on the system, >what matters is that it *be* FreeBSD, and not some mish-mash >of something-not-FreeBSD and FreeBSD calling itself FreeBSD; >*that* would cause problems. > >I really don't care if FreeBSD got installed because someone >waved a magic wand over their computer. > >In fact, I'd prefer it: I'd buy a wand for myself, and visit >every computer store in a 100 mile radius. 8-) 8-). > >-- Terry > > Doesn't matter to me either, so what's the problem? :) A true FreeBSD install is everything in /usr/src (with parts such as sendmail or BIND optionally disabled) and optional packages. So (as we all know), FreeBSD is by definition an Operating Environment (kernel *and* userland). As I see it, installing FreeBSD with a can of Spam is valid, as long as the kernel and userland in /usr/src are in-tact. From what I can tell, we'd be prettifying the install process and just selecting a couple of extra default packages (doing some good security auditing of course)... so there's no equivocation that this isn't FreeBSD... it's FreeBSD with a couple of packages selected by default (which, admittedly, one can do with the current installer). There's also no reason we can't make the installer also able to install a "server" set up. Every "pretty" Linux distro does it; I don't see why we shouldn't (considering that's what we already do by default, heh). So, what I see here is that we all have the same ideas about what this should be, we're just saying it different ways and misinterpreting it and the like, then bitching at each other ;). I think that we should now be bitching more about what default settings to use than if we're talking about the same thing, though -- that seems clear to me. If I'm wrong, hit me in the head with a frying pan and tell me ;) --Devon