From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 23 21:10:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA88BC2; Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:10:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com (mail-ie0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA35F1E; Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:10:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id c10so14269357ieb.25 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BpA5dj67WZlH6otc8RK+q+/RzAqjCZ7VIw3ePRRNH7Q=; b=X14iGBz1AuP296RKfIXyWljodRMf43Mma7/gL+PkBkVVzJrzMPJjJ+vGFD/hOS5c2H I0QAyWz/GodZt8tpifxemT3kuQtJMybJWeFFm65T5sUUahCA2d3t+Emm2xEsaE4ph5xw rxozJur1+nlNea9AQTcN6/2WcZT6la9Ac5p10RzReKjyf8qxwajZuQ+vgqdOU5jtB74e OLn2ak4PBA5kkYwyMLD9J3GhgMR+AEIcsl5noFC3A0W2gwIPpVhWQ7QDnzsZ9Fj/pYB8 BJiZxTTIOfmaYEiVpbQLiSho0TyN4J2De7xvlGLs9/n135ATWcbwmSQJBZlUqAUaDTlL uAAQ== X-Received: by 10.50.161.169 with SMTP id xt9mr15967527igb.62.1358975400181; Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.16.73 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:09:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1358973727-4656511.96619194.fr0NKfgPf025068@rs149.luxsci.com> References: <20130123144050.GG51786@e-Gitt.NET> <20130123201734.be0f9e715289c29e1b03c393@FreeBSD.org> <1358973727-4656511.96619194.fr0NKfgPf025068@rs149.luxsci.com> From: Chris Rees Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:09:30 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7SnP4rVMWF_cGZkEcQl_QFQ6gPg Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn - but smaller? To: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: FreeBSD , Emanuel Haupt X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:10:01 -0000 On 23 January 2013 20:41, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrot= e: > On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Emanuel Haupt wrote: >> Oliver Brandmueller wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> in ancient times there was cvsup. cvsup was a PITA if you wanted (or >>> needed) to install it via ports, the only reasonable way was to use >>> pkg_add for that if you didn't want to pollute your system with >>> otherwise unneeded software. >>> >>> Then there came csup. Small, in the base. You could install FreeBSD >>> and the first task (for me and my environment) was often to simply >>> csup to -STABLE (or a known good version of that) and to build an >>> up-to-date and customised system. Like tayloring make.conf and >>> src.conf to my needs and leave out most of the stuff I don't need on >>> my system and in the kernel. Software and drivers that aren't there >>> can't fail and won't be a security problem. >>> >>> Times have been changing, we're now up to svn. svn is far more modern >>> than cvs and there are pretty good reasons to use it. >>> >>> However, I either overlook something important or we are now at the >>> point we had with cvsup in the early days: The software I need to >>> (source-)update the system doens't come with the base and installing >>> svn is a PITA. It pulls in a whole lot of dependencies, at the time >>> being in FBSD-9.1-R I cannot even pkg_add -r subversion out of the >>> box. And in the end I have my system polluted with software and >>> libraries I don't really need in many cases for anything else. >>> >>> So, is there some alternative small svn client, that leaves a >>> drastically smaller footprint probably somewhere around, probably >>> even in the ports or is there anything I'm missing? The current >>> situaion for me is a bit annoying. From the user's or admin's point >>> of view at least. I didn't even see an option in svn to not build the >>> server components, which would probably already help to make things >>> smaller? >>> >>> Thanx, >>> Oliver > > On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Peter Wemm wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy >> wrote: >> >>> 1) License. Many of SVN's dependencies will never be available in the = FreeBSD source. >>> While this is totally OK for development, SVN is 3rd party software, th= is is unacceptable to force as 'the' respected path for OS source builds. >> >> Don't confuse the excessive ports default settings as dependencies. >> You can make a quite mean and lean svn client. I did a 100% >> BSD-license-compatible src/contrib/svn style proof-of-concept back >> when we were planning what to do. Things like gdbm and bdb are not >> required and are license contamination that we don't need. But that's >> the fault of the port, not a fundamental property of using svn. > > > On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Emanuel Haupt wrote: >> devel/subversion already has an option to build a static version. A >> solution could be to create a stub port (devel/subversion-static) >> similar to: >> >> shells/bash-devel >> shells/bash-static-devel >> >> dns/ldns >> dns/py-ldns >> >> That way the package build cluster would create a package of the static >> version which wouldn't pull in any runtime dependencies. >> >> Emanuel > > Peter, this work sounds great, and sounds like it would make a great stub= port itself! > I'd love to see whatever you have remaining from the proof-of-concept wor= k, to perhaps help expand it into 'devel/subversion-lite' or 'devel/subvers= ion-static' ? I'd happily use it for development. > > -- > However, SVN for development use is not what the point, this thread is ab= out using, administrating, and maintaining FreeBSD systems- not about devel= opment process. And in that case, SVN is still a fairly massive toolset fo= r the simple task of fetching REL, STABLE, or CURRENT: > > Source for SVN-alone: 55M > Source for FreeBSD 9.1: 746M > > That's still over 7% of the size of the entire OS. > > I believe it's not at all necessary to have anything except the base Free= BSD OS, to update/install FreeBSD. > > -- > A NYC*BUG list user posted this reminder, we've been here before: > >> Deja-vu=85 This reminds me of cvsup+modula-3. >> >> http://www.mavetju.org/mail/view_message.php?list=3Dfreebsd-current&id= =3D209027 > > > I'll keep hacking on our shell utility, and will post the PR to this thre= ad. Your shell utility appears to fetch a new tarball of the entire repo each time? That's very bandwidth-unfriendly for the Project's servers as well as yours... Chris