From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Thu Jun 2 20:51:01 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5626FB65982 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeff@altometrics.com) Received: from mail-oi0-x229.google.com (mail-oi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26A471D6D for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeff@altometrics.com) Received: by mail-oi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id j1so96672593oih.3 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:51:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=altometrics.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=E501FlfyFfl9ImXDT9dzq1XxU8hySzwhceOhMW/5fUQ=; b=LNqvrFG/8HpckSBCtmMXkM7QQcZlZmEKVW6fbBpaMM2ypzxan6OKSdgVWI9azqO+7h Lb/hnLX3DCNg6Ayp0lfea/gTtsS4MB9oCc88UqvfpOQqL6Lcc1p8PjSYx8mhsVS/jlU6 +hhQIVCKcGcv9HhHMglfThQ8glMpLCdijrocg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E501FlfyFfl9ImXDT9dzq1XxU8hySzwhceOhMW/5fUQ=; b=b++keuWLJBHKjwKVEButBKBo3QDo1XMuiEqI9KsKyMWdznj3hbI6noYHuFTMg2G+k0 jloEmHIFwAsyo3etJpQJXBnOz5FZdtblH2ms22v6QtGjrwazt6vW2ATsaiR8MqskYjFj xxUp9ObCbEFLuPpHdLuk6nOaxFPNt9wqZzMZSn/ivdRUapWezy56wHv5hVroCHm8ekj2 Mgyans7uH7rE/GjlUk/HmUYktvEX52xZj5xBe6MvALhozdW8IQTc2ZcxCpk+ER1la0tu pDTC5r+TUoq45wUM1hewfNF1nICdrDhoMOE1OgKiqyorqLXnEPER9CpXQdt4MjX0wK2M 6EmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKncMfzQ8vMTt2Y3C0EdTEiNKuADp6zrW0S0l+c7OmQsM7iaxe8fwTnF91V2h4goKKDvzel9DCcwruoDA== X-Received: by 10.157.26.22 with SMTP id a22mr81852ote.5.1464900660012; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:51:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.245.75 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [174.109.43.132] In-Reply-To: <94b39ea0-5b80-6d7b-044c-2810d3026761@nomadlogic.org> References: <94b39ea0-5b80-6d7b-044c-2810d3026761@nomadlogic.org> From: Jeff Terrell Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:50:19 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Running FreeBSD docker images on non-FreeBSD hosts To: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 20:51:01 -0000 On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Pete Wright wrote: >> So it looks like, if I'm committed to docker, I could run FreeBSD >> inside a KVM inside a container on Linux. Then others who might be >> interested in FreeBSD could play around with it on their Linux hosts >> via docker. > > why?!? Thanks for the challenge. (Seriously.) I don't want to add pain to myself and others needlessly. :-) > why put yourself and your co-workers through that much hell to test out > freebsd. having worked on docker (and before that other linux jail-like > systems) i never understood the thought process that forces everyone to t= ry > to fit all use-cases under one umbrella like this. > > if you have some workflow that is totally docker depedent then just run > freebsd+docker and be done with it. you'll have some linux docker nodes, > and some freebsd docker nodes and your on your way. > > or as mentioned earlier - there are all sorts of para-virtualization > technologies that allow one to run freebsd ontop of a linux (or mac) > hypervisor. the benefit with either of these approaches is that you remo= ve > about 50 hoops and support headaches and probably learn a bit more about = how > to manage heterogeneous environments along the way. I think these are great points. And if it were up to me, I can imagine this would be a better approach in many respects. But alas, this is for a project that I don't control. They've chosen docker, and I'm trying to fit a FreeBSD option in among the mix as painlessly as possible (for them). The fuller details are here, if you're interested. [1] [1] https://github.com/bit3/jsass/issues/40 (Indeed, I don't think this problem really requires virtualization at all. It's just that nobody has solved my problem in a portable language yet. The Java software [2], which I'm using indirectly from the Clojure software [3], doesn't solve the problem directly but instead uses JNA [4] to effectively shell out to a library, libsass.so [5].) [2] https://github.com/bit3/jsass/ [3] https://github.com/deraen/sass4clj [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Access [5] http://sass-lang.com/libsass That said, if one did create such a monstrosity as a docker image containing a KVM hypervisor containing a FreeBSD VM=E2=80=94and figured out how to pass commands and mount volumes from docker -> FreeBSD via KVM=E2=80=94that could be a nice "evangelism" move to give the masses who u= se docker a cheap and easy way to try out FreeBSD. Plus, such an image could be used to provide FreeBSD support for other software as well. Maybe I'll add that to my "one of these days" list... --=20 Jeff Terrell, Ph.D. | Chief Technology Officer ALTOMETRICS, Inc. (919) 357-3116 | www.altometrics.com