From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 19 20:32:28 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED5B16A4CE for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:32:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0CC43D53 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:32:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j2JKVbR3045938; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <423C8BB0.90504@samsco.org> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:29:36 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20050218 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Crawford References: <200503191743.j2JHhW1u024795@cvs.openbsd.org> <423C7EB1.9060704@samsco.org> <423C86A6.5020203@samsco.org> <5d683828050319122066805fe@mail.gmail.com> <423C89BF.4010604@samsco.org> <5d68382805031912297b5f6f39@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5d68382805031912297b5f6f39@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: misc@openbsd.org cc: Adam cc: Theo de Raadt Subject: Re: Adaptec AAC raid support X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:32:28 -0000 It's not a binary driver, it's a 2-clause BSD licensed driver that contains full source. You said that the OpenBSD driver is unstable, so I offered to help. That has nothing to do with binary apps. Deleting it from the OpenBSD tree is always an option, of course. Scott Jason Crawford wrote: > The OpenBSD community doesn't want help for closed utilities and > drivers. All we want is documentation. No source, no > binary-only-cannot-distrubute drivers and utilities, just enough > documenatation for which to write their drivers, and support > oursevles. No one has been able to answer us on how releasing just > documentation would lose them so much business that it's worth losing > all this business. > > Jason > > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:21:19 -0700, Scott Long wrote: > >>Jason Crawford wrote: >> >>>The problem is that the AAC driver doesn't work. My 3.6-stable dell >>>poweredge server with that raid controller crashes at least once a >>>week because of the raid controller driver. There is nothing wrong >>>with fighting for something that you want, and neither you nor Doug >>>have been that helpful. All Doug did was give Theo the run-around by >>>saying, don't worry, we'll be coming out with all new stuff! Which he >>>neglected to mention that they wouldn't be opening documentation for >>>either, at least enough to write a stable driver and management >>>utility. Adaptec would not be losing any money for just releasing >>>enough docs to let someone else write their own driver and management >>>utility TO USE ADAPTEC'S HARDWARE. They'd be generating more business. >>>This attitude so far has been quite productive, the OpenBSD community >>>has gotten many wireless firmware's and drivers completely open, not >>>to mention Theo getting the FSF award. I'd say that is pretty damn >>>productive. >>> >>>Jason >>> >> >>If the OpenBSD driver is buggy, then ask for help. I don't normally >>monitor the OpenBSD mailing lists and I don't run it at home, so I have >>no idea what the state of it is. I do, however, answer email from >>developers from other projects who contact me. The hardware is tricky >>to get right and there are bugs in different cards and different >>firmware versions that often need to be worked around. It's all >>documented in my driver, and I'm happy to share my knowledge. >> >>Scott >> >> >>>On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:08:06 -0700, Scott Long wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Adam wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:34:09 -0700, Scott Long wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I would have been happy to >>>>>>help. Heck, I might have even ported the management app (AACCLI, not >>>>>>a GUI, btw) for you like I did for FreeBSD. Barring that, I would have >>>>>>been happy to show you how to do the linux compat shims for the driver >>>>>>so that you could use the Linux AACCLI on OpenBSD. But no, you never >>>>>>contacted me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Does everyone who's worked at adaptec have such big problems with reading >>>>>comprehension? Nobody wants a maybe working, cludgy, binary only tool. >>>>>How would giving the developers something they don't want be considered >>>>>"helping"? >>>>> >>>>>Adam >>>> >>>>I can't see how the All Or Nothing attitude here is productive. Good, >>>>you guys want to produce fully open and unencumbered stuff. That's >>>>wonderful. But why is it so important to go around screaming and >>>>yelling about it and alientating those who do try to help? Let me >>>>tell you, Doug is about the most positive and supportive guy you'll >>>>ever have at Adaptec, pissing him off really won't produce results. >>>>Why is it so important to drag your users into your political fights >>>>by depriving them of stuff that works now but isn't exactly everything >>>>that you want? I'd love to have fully open stuff from all the RAID >>>>companies too, but I also want the users of FreeBSD to be able to use >>>>the resources that are out there to their full advantage and not be >>>>pinned down by my political beliefs on the subject. >>>> >>>>Scott >>>> >>>> >> >>