From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 06:30:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D649316A4D1; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4A343D5A; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:30:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) i07EUBmT040749; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:30:11 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost)i07EUB2T040748; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:30:11 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])i07ETZMI068819; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:29:35 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200401071429.i07ETZMI068819@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:04:37 GMT." <3FFC03E5.7010305@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:35 +0000 Sender: mark@grondar.org X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 06:32:23 -0800 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:30:21 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > "In short, you can put all the effort you want in, but -core and many > with a commit bit will resent you for it, because you're just a user." > > 4. In private I've already apologised for that particualr comment as I > realise now it was very "Daily Mail" of me to make it (for those of you > without access to the Daily Mail, congratualations), and it's only fair > as it spilled out onto the public lists, that I apologise here too. Mark > also apologised for swearing at me. I consider hands to have been shaken over this. :-). > And for those of you who normally shout "Submit a patch" - well, I'm > thinking about it. :-) I've been thinking of your objection to the "submit a patch" reply, and I offer this as a proto-thought on how it can be applied to non-coders: As FreeBSD is a volunteer project, I suspect part of the problem is getting said volunteers to do things that they would otherwise not do. "Submit a patch" can be easily(?) extendted to cover a much wider area of volunteer-organised work than simply code. Under specifically _patches_, there are code, documentation and web page patches, but there is also a need for organizational skills. The PR database frequently gets blitzed by keen folks who get lots of PRs closed, follwed by burnout. We are doing rather well with our release-engineering team (Go Scott L!), and our currently active admin@ crowd are doing a great job, but we could still use skills, and these are not necessarily of the coding kind. SO - instead of "submit a patch" perhaps if we were to go "submit something tangible and useful"? This can be anything that will forward the progress of FreeBSD. It could be something lofty like paying the salary of a developer who will then work primarily on projects useful to yourself. It could be commissioned work for a particular project you would like to see done. It could be a financial or equipment donation. It could be a donation of your time in a way that would be useful (please help here by finding something that needs doing and offering to do it, rather than expecting us geeks to find it for you!). It could be _anything_ that forwards the aims of the project and that you can do, and it preferably needs to be something that can be done autonomously (or as autonomously as possible). You will not get paid, you may not get thanked, but you will have the satisfaction of actually getting something done, and if you like FreeBSD as much as I do, that is an end in itself! M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH