From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 12 00:55:14 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C06F16A402 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 00:55:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172DE13C44B for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 00:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.13.8/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id l4C0gBos014476 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 165 Received: by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 10096) id 8AF73BF6A0; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0BCBF5F3 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id B3F7E88; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:09 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20070512004209.GA12218@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.165]); Sat, 12 May 2007 02:42:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.7/3227/Fri May 11 11:39:25 2007 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at shiva.jussieu.fr with ID 46450D63.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 12 May 2007 01:11:14 +0000 Subject: Re: DPS Initial Ideas X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 00:55:14 -0000 Kris Kennaway explained in 4 points why a proposal to introduce a new package system is doomed to failure. In particular he says: > "I think your current proposal falls short on points 2) and 3). In > particular, I don't see where SQLite is necessary to solve any > problems we are currently facing, and your proposal conflicts with > existing work." Existing work consists in integrating metadata in a Berkeley DB database, when new project would like to integrate them in SQLite database. Now existing software (portupgrade) has shown what can be gained by pushing all sort of unstructured data in a Berkeley base :-( In this same thread N arguments have been advanced by various people showing why using something more structured and formal like a SQL database would be beneficial. One of the most obvious being that the sqlite database can be edited as easily as a pure textfile using the sqlite3 program, or can be accessed programmatically from a lot of languages (C, perl, python, ruby) using well known and well tested libraries or connectors. Since sqlite is public domain, there is no licence objection to bring it in FreeBSD. Moreover it is a small program and which could be very useful to a lot of users and for a lot of alternative uses. As a consequence the "high bar of entry" and the "proof of necessity" seem to me an unreasonably stringent condition. Because the problem to be solved is not the "collapse under its own weight" of the proposals, but the collapse of the FreeBSD ports system. Someone (i think des) has said not long ago that Debian or Debian like systems were easier to maintain than FreeBSD. This is an understatement. -- Michel TALON