From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Sat Sep 5 03:11:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B78D3DBB80 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 03:11:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb44.google.com (mail-yb1-xb44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bk01f1C8Tz3WYg for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 03:11:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Received: by mail-yb1-xb44.google.com with SMTP id c17so5741976ybe.0 for ; Fri, 04 Sep 2020 20:11:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kev009.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CQRSc2g0r6U2T6y4uN0x3Jwh8pdSEBARNtwgRCw1SqI=; b=ISOsor3lk6Fwg0hEwV8qN/M88IZYc5vMoEKeTwZPCzj1PYtq0lK4TSG7PyRziROOsI 1zLWg92bf38Kdc/bwfKE/MJCVqRPQCfAO50OnIVKT9sMmArrdpFrF5oplH0yKpo0rJvM f7ZIUtJN/hmLW/c0ZoDRMLgc3JEQx7nK97cFI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CQRSc2g0r6U2T6y4uN0x3Jwh8pdSEBARNtwgRCw1SqI=; b=Px79hSPoOnl8gQvRYusQc/tx1fltKY+R9dEukUhwySQe3ZZGp6yCfd00n11yus/N6K lcS7SIzOTcjicbVVfqtNHuTSxQgNYKxhVTUpC4tnhUmtgXXzd98Mf13lXR6NKxgWfOg8 J8VjACm/cPGU2Ari7YAnoHJNW3hzdCOLxo7GeX+FBG8/iEwzMkYGoAaO0i5p0Knva+hV PHmJ9kIhLalDPH9yI60MIom5oWY9ynbhXb5WLvJAFP62Z3DaiipapNT8YKlD+UkD0mtp uBc8qtG2ikFrAs+yNv9fhCWfjLMfDzmuH55WuMvuCj5xWHe9QNwVZlNdJrqSTNGgJewx Jc/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531brfcxiksK9VU0GD0boB14f6f/Lf11/YIknL1UhjwDL0/PCML+ 9+S9yoOKaJiOSuXt+CUPoqwlBjCn8B1QT9Gqw9iUow== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw2Kv8QADarHcYvta0R0K6BqZdSctA634ZPOYUM1j79O9VEfrruvoHhuL2nEj4RKtav3p6FEnfGODX40jG2f/A= X-Received: by 2002:a25:3403:: with SMTP id b3mr5243100yba.455.1599275476981; Fri, 04 Sep 2020 20:11:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009012119.081LJERb018106@repo.freebsd.org> <95844C00-D10A-456D-AD29-DF572043074F@fh-muenster.de> <20200902020507.GA38274@FreeBSD.org> <20200902180626.GA88595@FreeBSD.org> <6124a908-25a5-e023-16da-7963ba229b7f@FreeBSD.org> <08636D5E-AA07-4AE7-B5AC-656B08CF564B@fh-muenster.de> <20200903024226.GA54078@FreeBSD.org> <60ea593f-8258-e30d-b897-f162168b44d3@cs.duke.edu> <20200905010510.GA26297@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 20:11:06 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365071 - in head/sys: net net/altq net/route net80211 netgraph netgraph/atm netgraph/atm/ccatm netgraph/atm/sscfu netgraph/atm/sscop netgraph/atm/uni netgraph/bluetooth/common netgraph... To: Warner Losh Cc: Mark Linimon , Andrew Gallatin , Alexey Dokuchaev , Michael Tuexen , Pedro Giffuni , Mateusz Guzik , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bk01f1C8Tz3WYg X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none (invalid DKIM record) header.d=kev009.com header.s=google header.b=ISOsor3l; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kevin.bowling@kev009.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kevin.bowling@kev009.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.056]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-head@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kev009.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kev009.com:~]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.86)[-0.856]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b44:from]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[kev009.com:s=google]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[svn-src-head]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:44:01 +0000 X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 03:11:19 -0000 I disagree that the problem is intractable. It's just a decision and it has a one time cost with long term benefits like paying off a high interest loan. The intractability opinion seemed justifiable for a long time but it's been proven false by other communities, particularly Go and Rust and there is nothing syntactically special about these languages that enable this; it's just a decision to make the style fit an extant formatter. An arbitrary formater may leave a little bit of annoyance to each person's taste, but that is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to never having to discuss and especially correct (which may /seem/ helpful but is pretty offputting to newcomers). A tool does it, and it takes the wind out of any passive aggressive bike shed opportunities from either maintainer or contributor. It sucks that downstreams have to fall in line, but that doesn't stop progress on any other major changes in FreeBSD. On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:57 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 7:05 PM Mark Linimon wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 02:15:04PM -0400, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > and I also anticipate it will cause problems with MFCs > > > > And existing PRs and DRs. > > > > Or we could just not bother we these changes at all. It's a pipe dream we > will ever be style(9) compliant in all our code, or that we can magically > have a tool to enforce in new commits. We have better things to worry > about. We should continue to ignore this non problem and for new users > point them at the 95% correct format thing to run their submitted patches > if they submit something too far out of whack. > > The last sweep deleted a boatload of blank lines that were in there on > purpose. Not worth adding them back, but still annoying to no real benefit. > > I just don't see the benefits at all of doing anything here. The few > reviews that I've seen mention it seem to be the right level of effort. > > Warner > > > > _______________________________________________ > svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"