From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 07:02:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A79616A417; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:02:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB49D13C4F3; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:02:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A57E1D.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.126.29]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E3F2E0CB; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:02:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B9B7AD5F; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:02:17 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=Leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1197356538; bh=buH54ErTHdhHS2MtHQvD7QbAXv4CL9SSR /4Q5bgdfwY=; h=Message-ID:X-Priority:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Disposition:Content-Transfer-Encoding:User-Agent; b=ZcJz7T 8m91CcPJXibReKQYOQH/Y8ANfw2Wv4FukmBYCW91hGv2FYKi0wagp6acekOlu/hDiM+ pLiTMSRNvP7UILCM5sr9BWfTtfmf1Nzxx4QV64hQ61VDZK4FUjLLiHv2BvpRlRnoLSR QT23pxG5pKlGc8/IK2KMKnRTeSMY4MwrBxRiBDk0RH/FCWKaRepPyUKSpFtUZW5y2/D jceaLfkVs9icJkcF2qABBncr626zY+2sQxjggeK1jDm9lryzkIQSPAM26Lg7YdfAkal EPa7AaxFayFnz3T/0mp7Hv6Hz+sBQ1EvaCkL1nc8WmhwTR/Vfxvwm3vbO/B/s/SI4A+ Q== Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.1/8.13.8/Submit) id lBB72H2c053923; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:02:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:02:16 +0100 Message-ID: <20071211080216.pb3b95teoggko00o@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:02:16 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: David Schultz References: <20071128211022.GA74762@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <20071128213947.Q7555@fledge.watson.org> <20071210192533.GA15728@VARK.MIT.EDU> <20071210220854.07e02f1f@deskjail> <20071210223838.GB16598@VARK.MIT.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20071210223838.GB16598@VARK.MIT.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.9, required 6, BAYES_00 -15.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.00, DKIM_VERIFIED -0.00, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.10) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Brooks Davis , Robert Watson , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: libkse*.a in 7.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:02:37 -0000 Quoting David Schultz (from Mon, 10 Dec 2007 =20 17:38:38 -0500): > On Mon, Dec 10, 2007, Alexander Leidinger wrote: >> Running Solaris 8/9 programs is not supported by SUN on Solaris 10. It >> works in some cases, but it doesn't work in some other cases. > > That's not true. It is supported. See: > http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/programs/abi/ > http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/programs/abi/sag.xml > > In theory, a SunOS 5.0 app will still work in SunOS 5.10 The important part is the "theory" word... I work in the office of SUN in Luxembourg, and one of our ideas for a =20 client was to run a Solaris 8/9 in a zone of a Solaris 10 as a =20 replacement for machines with Solaris 8/9. As we have a service =20 contract with our client, we have to take some business constraints =20 into account. And one of those business constraints is that Solaris =20 8/9 in a zone of Solaris 10 is not supported, as the kernel interface =20 (syscalls) changed in an incompatible way. > Of course, in practice, perfect binary compatibility is too much > to ask for. It's possible to write programs that notice that So far we handled this good in FreeBSD. > different releases aren't bug-for-bug compatible, and if you > statically link your binary or use unsupported ABIs, you break > their guarantee. But that's orthogonal to my original point. > >> And now >> some people work on using BrandZ (if you know nothing about it, it's >> sort of like our technology used to do our linuxulator or freebsd32 on >> amd64; that's not accurate, but is good enough for the point I want to >> make) to provide a Solaris 10 container (think about it as a jail on >> steroides) with an Solaris X (X < 10) image, so that people can install >> a Solaris 10 host and run Solaris X in it (like our linuxulator in a >> jail, but not as flexible as our linuxulator, theirs can not run on the >> main system like ours can). > > Right, having the linuxulator in the kernel is all but > unavoidable. But for old FreeBSD apps running on newer versions of > FreeBSD, we can do better, and a library-based approach is easier > to maintain and less prone to security problems. It's not running only old apps on a new system, it's running the =20 userland of an old system in a jail of a new system. That's what I'm =20 concerned about (and works currently as we took care about maintaining =20 compatibility in the kernel) and that's what you can not handle with a =20 library-based approach. Bye, Alexander. --=20 You get what you pay for. =09=09-- Gabriel Biel http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137