From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 15 20:38:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5DD106566B for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7868FC12 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:38:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so7846117pbb.13 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:38:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uZZKMPbWaTKcWC/okN4yZ8XWW5/Sw+me4tcJFAPkpRw=; b=r/gV0oFhYRANyeSb42RtlhL4HIXvD9KCr/98UPhdInQwtSUuMc6cWCxeOdYQtNCuPA BRH0HmWQ88iqjCRaOg/BWeq4sk36lY9a9UDmxhVZ3f6jxXKEk5LNGTKCzs5c4tdoI90M QefwYJw/cM/7AY0kPzVexVkvaRXRDN1EnWISc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=uZZKMPbWaTKcWC/okN4yZ8XWW5/Sw+me4tcJFAPkpRw=; b=o2xCiOARmgVoId4iDhfVXQiLaXY2DcI3rikL8h6teCHh12kaYJ9HwVtG/NK1x9SJ3x D/0nP0tfe2IuISGCgR/KyJ/XMr1lcfRnV6gAO+64KcB2iY7yqS5Ir4atOCvS1dcBmQfu APJxpXvQJbTLCcdbflGrAZ2OO2B144Flb9Zu/0nuCkvN6wXgr9zHddSvxV67+dSAP3Dx enwIA7gozpsW0Cnf0QQ/NUZdpX/p11i/LCse1ata/ndwOfIu9CiF7atd8n2NNPMna0WC 0AMrcYhopmkaqBDGZ8Ss2GncAyCFt36L0Z+mIgV28HCZxxrYhFHyr9mdyuPpCqstTjIv zwHw== Received: by 10.66.73.100 with SMTP id k4mr10531562pav.49.1347741500356; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:38:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.87.41 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:37:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eitan Adler Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:37:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl1dnUavveTXhxTB0rd5rH4Q/rT0K6llZfTExBxPT6sbVjOVrkmtLX0/Ia/UyyJrICwp4G/ Cc: Subject: Fallout from the CVS discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:38:21 -0000 Hi everyone, After the 90+ email thread this is my take on the CVS discussion: Here is a summary of people that support CVS's removal now: Eitan Adler Peter Jeremy Bryan Drewery Tim Kientzle Poul-Henning Kamp Joel Dahl Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav Paul Schenkeveld Baptiste Daroussin Doug Barton Lars Engels Markiyan Kushnir Here is a summary of people that support CVS's eventual removal, but want to wait for some time: Warner Losh Erich Dollansky Bjoern A. Zeeb Garance A Drosehn Here is a summary of people that prefer not to remove CVS at all (or at least, specifically not for 10.0): Olli Hauer Julian H. Stacey Here are people that commented, whose opinion I did not see stated: Lev Serebryakov Glen Barber Ian Lepore Adrian Chadd Giovanni Trematerra Alfred Perlstein Jeffrey Bouquet Marius Strobl I believe the overwhelming majority of people commenting support the removal of CVS from base at some point before 10.0. As such I think it is correct to do so. I see following reasons to keep CVS brought up in the : - we still have some CVS infrastructure - lots of users still use the CVS infrastructure - Some users rely on CVS on machines which can't install ports - We don't have a complete subversion infrastructure ready - CVS has been traditionally installed on unix systems However, -CURRENT is not meant to be a production system. Users running -current are expected to follow the mailing lists, debug systems, and deal with tool changes. In particular these are the exact users capable of dealing with the above issues. In addition waiting to remove CVS delays the amount of time users will have to learn the "new world order," to find hidden dependencies on CVS, etc. There is a port (and package) available for CVS. CVS is not something not ordinarily needed by embedded systems, so concerns about the inability to use ports are minimal. My plan is to wait for some of the existing objections to be solved and then go ahead with the removal. In particular I will not remove CVS until (a) Documentation has been updated to the new svn for src, ports, www and d= oc (b) We create a 'changes between 9 and 10 list' and put this removal on it. In particular this document should well advertised (and possibly be a subset of the release notes) (c) We are sure the svn mirrors are sufficient enough for users both in the United States and in other countries. In particular I will *not* be waiting for: (i) cvsup to die (ii) a complete lack of CVS users. The discussion has resulted in some very useful ideas and feedback and I'd like to thank everyone who participated. If you have additional objections please followup with me *privately*. Other than this email, I will let the topic rest until such time as the first three conditions are met. --=20 Eitan Adler