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[67.4.156.204]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e6sm2291968ith.0.2016.08.18.10.04.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: linda@kateley.com Subject: Re: HAST + ZFS + NFS + CARP References: <61283600-A41A-4A8A-92F9-7FAFF54DD175@ixsystems.com> <20160704183643.GI41276@mordor.lan> <20160704193131.GJ41276@mordor.lan> <20160811091016.GI70364@mordor.lan> <1AA52221-9B04-4CF6-97A3-D2C2B330B7F9@sarenet.es> <472bc879-977f-8c4c-c91a-84cc61efcd86@internetx.com> <20160817085413.GE22506@mordor.lan> <465bdec5-45b7-8a1d-d580-329ab6d4881b@internetx.com> <20160817095222.GG22506@mordor.lan> <52d5b687-1351-9ec5-7b67-bfa0be1c8415@kateley.com> <92F4BE3D-E4C1-4E5C-B631-D8F124988A83@gmail.com> <6b866b6e-1ab3-bcc5-151b-653e401742bd@kateley.com> <02F2828E-AB88-4F25-AB73-5EF041BAD36E@gmail.com> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Linda Kateley Organization: Kateley Company Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:04:35 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <02F2828E-AB88-4F25-AB73-5EF041BAD36E@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:04:43 -0000 Lemme send this over them :) linda On 8/17/16 4:14 PM, Ben RUBSON wrote: >> On 17 Aug 2016, at 20:03, Linda Kateley wrote: >> >> RSF-1 runs in the zfs stack and send the writes to the second system. > Linda, do you have any link to a documentation about this RSF-1 operation mode ? > > According to what I red about RSF-1, storage is shared between nodes, and RSF-1 manages the failover, we do not have 2 different storages. > (so I don't really understand how writes are sent to the "second system") > > In addition, RSF-1 does not seem to help with long-distance replication to a different storage. > But I may be wrong ? > This is where ZFS send/receive helps. > Or even a nicer solution I proposed a few weeks ago : https://www.illumos.org/issues/7166 (but a lot of work to achieve). > > Ben > >> On 8/17/16 11:55 AM, Chris Watson wrote: >>> Of course, if you are willing to accept some amount of data loss that opens up a lot more options. :) >>> >>> Some may find that acceptable though. Like turning off fsync with PostgreSQL to get much higher throughput. As little no as you are made *very* aware of the risks. >>> >>> It's good to have input in this thread from one with more experience with RSF-1 than the rest of us. You confirm what others have that said about RSF-1, that it's stable and works well. What were you deploying it on? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 5 >>> >>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Linda Kateley > wrote: >>> >>>> The question I always ask, as an architect, is "can you lose 1 minute worth of data?" If you can, then batched replication is perfect. If you can't.. then HA. Every place I have positioned it, rsf-1 has worked extremely well. If i remember right, it works at the dmu. I would suggest try it. They have been trying to have a full freebsd solution, I have several customers running it well. >>>> >>>> linda >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/17/16 4:52 AM, Julien Cigar wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:05:46AM +0200, InterNetX - Juergen Gotteswinter wrote: >>>>>> Am 17.08.2016 um 10:54 schrieb Julien Cigar: >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 09:25:30AM +0200, InterNetX - Juergen Gotteswinter wrote: >>>>>>>> Am 11.08.2016 um 11:24 schrieb Borja Marcos: >>>>>>>>>> On 11 Aug 2016, at 11:10, Julien Cigar > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As I said in a previous post I tested the zfs send/receive approach (with >>>>>>>>>> zrep) and it works (more or less) perfectly.. so I concur in all what you >>>>>>>>>> said, especially about off-site replicate and synchronous replication. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Out of curiosity I'm also testing a ZFS + iSCSI + CARP at the moment, >>>>>>>>>> I'm in the early tests, haven't done any heavy writes yet, but ATM it >>>>>>>>>> works as expected, I havent' managed to corrupt the zpool. >>>>>>>>> I must be too old school, but I don’t quite like the idea of using an essentially unreliable transport >>>>>>>>> (Ethernet) for low-level filesystem operations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In case something went wrong, that approach could risk corrupting a pool. Although, frankly, >>>>>>>>> ZFS is extremely resilient. One of mine even survived a SAS HBA problem that caused some >>>>>>>>> silent corruption. >>>>>>>> try dual split import :D i mean, zpool -f import on 2 machines hooked up >>>>>>>> to the same disk chassis. >>>>>>> Yes this is the first thing on the list to avoid .. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm still busy to test the whole setup here, including the >>>>>>> MASTER -> BACKUP failover script (CARP), but I think you can prevent >>>>>>> that thanks to: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - As long as ctld is running on the BACKUP the disks are locked >>>>>>> and you can't import the pool (even with -f) for ex (filer2 is the >>>>>>> BACKUP): >>>>>>> https://gist.github.com/silenius/f9536e081d473ba4fddd50f59c56b58f >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - The shared pool should not be mounted at boot, and you should ensure >>>>>>> that the failover script is not executed during boot time too: this is >>>>>>> to handle the case wherein both machines turn off and/or re-ignite at >>>>>>> the same time. Indeed, the CARP interface can "flip" it's status if both >>>>>>> machines are powered on at the same time, for ex: >>>>>>> https://gist.github.com/silenius/344c3e998a1889f988fdfc3ceba57aaf and >>>>>>> you will have a split-brain scenario >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Sometimes you'll need to reboot the MASTER for some $reasons >>>>>>> (freebsd-update, etc) and the MASTER -> BACKUP switch should not >>>>>>> happen, this can be handled with a trigger file or something like that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - I've still have to check if the order is OK, but I think that as long >>>>>>> as you shutdown the replication interface and that you adapt the >>>>>>> advskew (including the config file) of the CARP interface before the >>>>>>> zpool import -f in the failover script you can be relatively confident >>>>>>> that nothing will be written on the iSCSI targets >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - A zpool scrub should be run at regular intervals >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is my MASTER -> BACKUP CARP script ATM >>>>>>> https://gist.github.com/silenius/7f6ee8030eb6b923affb655a259bfef7 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Julien >>>>>>> >>>>>> 100€ question without detailed looking at that script. yes from a first >>>>>> view its super simple, but: why are solutions like rsf-1 such more >>>>>> powerful / featurerich. Theres a reason for, which is that they try to >>>>>> cover every possible situation (which makes more than sense for this). >>>>> I've never used "rsf-1" so I can't say much more about it, but I have >>>>> no doubts about it's ability to handle "complex situations", where >>>>> multiple nodes / networks are involved. >>>>> >>>>>> That script works for sure, within very limited cases imho >>>>>> >>>>>>>> kaboom, really ugly kaboom. thats what is very likely to happen sooner >>>>>>>> or later especially when it comes to homegrown automatism solutions. >>>>>>>> even the commercial parts where much more time/work goes into such >>>>>>>> solutions fail in a regular manner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The advantage of ZFS send/receive of datasets is, however, that you can consider it >>>>>>>>> essentially atomic. A transport corruption should not cause trouble (apart from a failed >>>>>>>>> "zfs receive") and with snapshot retention you can even roll back. You can’t roll back >>>>>>>>> zpool replications :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ZFS receive does a lot of sanity checks as well. As long as your zfs receive doesn’t involve a rollback >>>>>>>>> to the latest snapshot, it won’t destroy anything by mistake. Just make sure that your replica datasets >>>>>>>>> aren’t mounted and zfs receive won’t complain. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Borja. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>>>>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>>>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org " >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"