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Date:      Wed, 17 May 2000 18:35:54 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
To:        rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan)
Cc:        mellon@pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey), chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Salon article on BSD
Message-ID:  <200005171835.LAA07917@usr05.primenet.com>
In-Reply-To: <20000516115825.B19647@physics.iisc.ernet.in> from "Rahul Siddharthan" at May 16, 2000 11:58:25 AM

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> He also doesn't like kernel debuggers, on the grounds that they make 
> you try to cure the symptom rather than the problem.  He prefers 
> that people stare at the code until they see what's wrong with it.

Kernel debuggers have two nasty attributes:

1)	Linking the debugger into the kernel adds another
	variable, which can preterb the problem space, and
	thus result in the bug you are trying to examine
	being masked.

	This is a general problem with using the object of
	your attention as the container for the means by
	which you focus your attention.  For example, VMS
	tended to mask many bugs, including NULL pointer
	dereferences, when programs were run in the debugger.

2)	Kernel debuggers are like the VMS debugger or the
	majority of debuggers on non-protected mode OS
	platforms (well, unless you use vmware, like Julian
	does, in order to externalized the debugger 8-)).

	The problem with this approach, compared to using a
	dump image and doing a post moretm, is that you have
	to keep one step behind in your head.  Then you fail
	catastrophically, and you have to _repeat_ the debug
	session to the point where you are once again about
	to imminently reproduce the problem, in order to fix
	it.

There is much less advantage to staring at code... unless you have
someone you think is a complete moron do it over your shoulder.
In this special case, they will point to the problem with a
rapidity inversly proportional to your opinion of their intelligence.

8-).

Better formal methods exist, including "not writing bugs into the
code in the first place because you have done the design and have
verified that the code actually implements the design".


> Well, whatever suits him -- and linux has improved phenomenally in the
> last 3 years, ie since its 1.2 days, so he must be doing something
> right.  One can't say what *would* have happened if he'd done things
> differently.  

If he had adopted a constraining tool like CVS, Linux would have
forked on no less than 3 (mathematically) documentable occasions.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.


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