From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:09:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5502A16A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71DC43FD7 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PK8rW9095148; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PK8r3h018129; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PK8qLj018128; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:52 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-RC X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:09:05 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:41:35PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:54:59AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Frankly, FreeBSD has too many cooks, and not enough bottle washers; > > this is a euphimism for saying that all anyone with a commit bit > > seems to want to do any more is write new code, and no one is > > willing to take on the integration and maintenance tasks. > > The euphemism sucks, but the point is there. The problem here has > nothing to do with commit bits. People who do the dirty work and > do it in a way that demonstrates that they can do it unattended > are given commit bits. The problem is that after a certain amount > of dirty work someone either goes away or, if given a commit bit, > moves on to more interesting things to waste time on. > > There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a > way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always > recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within > that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because > you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If > noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, > it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty > work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit > because none of his work has been committed. And to add to the complexity the non-committer providing patches has a much better chance of obtaining his/her own commit bit if the patches are committed to the repo. That is the (in?)famous track-record that has been discussed before that is one of the gating factors for a commit bit. Puzzling.. to say the least.. Wilko -- | / o / /_ _ FreeBSD core team secretary |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org