From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 31 13:58:50 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A961065670 for ; Sun, 31 May 2009 13:58:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (cl-43.dus-01.de.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a01:198:200:2a::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD648FC12 for ; Sun, 31 May 2009 13:58:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (localhost.spoerlein.net [127.0.0.1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n4VDwkQn058103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 31 May 2009 15:58:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Received: (from uqs@localhost) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n4VDwkv3058076; Sun, 31 May 2009 15:58:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:58:46 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: Randy Bush Message-ID: <20090531135846.GD18676@acme.spoerlein.net> Mail-Followup-To: Randy Bush , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20090526113714.GC1043@straylight.m.ringlet.net> <20090526120948.GA14134@owl.midgard.homeip.net> <20090526194617.GA16353@owl.midgard.homeip.net> <20090531115151.GC18676@acme.spoerlein.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make.conf no x option X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 13:58:50 -0000 On Sun, 31.05.2009 at 21:25:33 +0900, Randy Bush wrote: > >>>> i think this whole thing is worth a few days to settle in our heads. > >>>> essentially, if we believe that freebsd is used extensively in > >>>> headless server deployments, we should make that easy and smooth. > >>> But even a headless server can run X clients with the display being on > >>> some other (presumably non-headless) machine. That is on of the > >>> beauties of the X Windowing System. > >> > >> [ thanks, but i am overly-familiar with the beauties and the some of the > >> warts of x. ] > >> > >> someone installing a server may or may not want the x client version of > >> a package as opposed to readline or curses. but, imiho, it would be > >> good to make such decisions centralized, somewhat strong, and pretty > >> clear. > >> > >>> The only part that would make no sense to install on a headless > >>> machine is the X server itself > >> > >> and the support for it and the toys it occasionally seems to drag in. > >> > >> i really do not want the x client versions of emacs, cvsup, ... > >> actually, i can not think of any ports i run on headless machines that i > >> want spawning windows on my glass. ymmv, of course. > >> > >> i think that i would like to be able to say headless install and have to > >> ack any port which wants to drag in x. > > > > First of all, try figuring out which ports got you into the X11 mess. On > > my server I got: > > > > % pkg_info -R libX11-1.2.1,1 > > Information for libX11-1.2.1,1: > > my point was specifically that, if we believe that freebsd is used by a > major server population, that having to know/do this kind of cruft is > ill-advised. Please step back a moment and think about what you're trying to accomplish. Specifically, *why* (and you should give technical reasons) are you opposing some random X11 libraries in your installation? They don't take up space, having vim with X support (not gvim!) is nice, as you can use the mouse to scroll around, resize windows, etc. and for most of the ports, WITHOUT_X11 already DTRT, if not please provide examples so they may be fixed. I am sure, the major population of server admins in this part of town don't care about whether gvim is installed as part of vim or not. YMMV, of course, but since you want to change the status quo, the burden of proving the benefit of such action is on you. Cheers, Ulrich Spörlein -- http://www.dubistterrorist.de/