From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 27 01:11:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C4310657AC for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 01:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478618FC13 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 01:11:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so409221qyk.13 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ogzCwTODPx3V/fFzdh5EutleIOijGR3cS49ZhnJAawY=; b=rnd9jboj14lGtGBJQM789BFTIQMXmsmorjBQhGzBXgMYc3sNLTnT8TIVcODvoLhBFs s3RWP6X7XWpyx3/tt4iH3m5ZHfjjmdPTptkYbngbSWLQSAbYqFENDdWSnBeaCwI84EZs GaM/A2Q/jtQ84pTRQ6Q/dDE3SkFvCMWKzzGnE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.216.197 with SMTP id hj5mr5873713qab.24.1317085887111; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.74.82 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201109260053.SAA25795@lariat.net> <201109260927.02540.jhb@freebsd.org> <201109262035.OAA17199@lariat.net> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:11:27 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Arnaud Lacombe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Benjamin Kaduk Subject: Re: Experiences with FreeBSD 9.0-BETA2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 01:11:28 -0000 On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Brett Glass wrote: >>>> >>>> My personal preference would be to place portions of the directory tre= e >>>> which contain critical configuration information and are not written i= n >>>> normal use -- e.g. /etc and /boot -- >>>> >>> The problem with /boot on a dedicated partition is the the kernel, >>> since at least 8.x, is installed by default with a vast majority of >>> crap. That's all the .symbols, that 99% of FreeBSD users will never >>> uses. >> >> My recollection is that this is because kensmith forgot to take 'makeopt= ions >> DEBUG=3D-g' out of GENERIC when branching stable/8, and no one noticed u= ntil a >> couple of releases in, at which point it seemed consistent with POLA to = just >> keep it there. =A0Unfortunately I am not having much luck digging throug= h mail >> archives trying to confirm that. >> I don't remember whether the plan was to turn it off on stable/9 or not. >> >>> >>> Beside that, the auto-partitionner refuses to work on <1G drive, which >>> is really ridiculous... >>> >>> FreeBSD 9.0BETA2 bases + games fit in 310MB, crap taken out. >> >> Can you even buy a spinning disk less than 50GB these days? >> > The storage world is not limited to spinning hardware. Take a 512MB > CF, put it in a soekris box, and you got an embedded system capable of > doing a whole bunch of stuff. > > Now, FreeBSD may no longer want to target such "niche" usage. > >> If you have hardware of that nature, you are almost certainly going to w= ant >> to customize other aspects of the system (and if it's an under-provision= ed >> system, are you really going to be doing this customization in-place?), = at >> which point removing the extra stuff is minimal extra work. =A0If a deve= loper >> has to ask a user to do something (e.g. compile) in order to debug >> something, there is a huge hit in the response rate; having the symbols >> available in the general case can be helpful. >> > Then why don't you provide symbols for the whole system, including > binaries and libraries ? At least be consistent in your argument... > > And, yes, I have patches for that. For embedded this doesn't make sense with limited storage -- but that's what binutils enables: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/866721/how-to-generate-gcc-debug-symbol-= outside-the-build-target . I've linked against debug symbols when doing debugging with gdb and I can definitely attest to the fact that it's convenient and works well when trying to produce tiny embedded images. Thanks, -Garrett