From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 02:00:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E23CA27B2 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:00:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460nKr5wZnz3H86 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.36.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N8XgH-1iOa3k3OF7-014RU7; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 04:00:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:00:09 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803040009.291039df.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1954I92dIzk9lipqmJ/zDcxLXVVNV4SI2BGtgLSAgd3ZNnbB6c3 Wup+t/Gp5JGnFDMkkEDSn+iW35GzQ3Cc+BW7WLbEY2k4UXfdFM8jbM/jl88muArwc3Tz/Ie +dezZkxkzjKalEnIIRxRuk2i0OsxHOeY+LfEM6p54unMfXl9BptwoxyntKKCt4z0iGglClv YUxbjwACRUnwLQb5hCQCA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Tbse4QHJ6lA=:ECXMJg68PuQ+iYYiPBDAwT bA4UZJ5ekhMPFRkvsaezfqQw/iO1zEa+eRRYK5ElXkrFmL1DXW8fEscnB4bsNswvM6J+J2FbG +cYkYhHoqadZKGSSnemO8pCee2yMJQ7yWed+TICcKK20uxwxEEFzBSh7N9agxs14wIyIwg3vH /yMgqTaYWErM4vDj8Py6xwpCve4Hzg9S5MrC0Y+FHSqHZK0MrQy2+uHUWhqWAv8QT9fL0gBsT LmaUFi/cNNbPVWZlUx9ry5vkGo+TnZaJ9gSauRyEcq5a13yVO6IGQKtGJKUW0mozciBGSzEzK jwB/ZUKhrB9XuOvwnyaAS/l6JF34cRALKfZeKVLqnhdKckMjumYQz2kKo2FtGCoHy3a1lIYx5 P8TiUCerKsM/iizMTGjqZyHgJ4Z71kDnX/osUG/+ggoMfz6fHrX8de3b614/SPYGPkPjT9eex +UTPaDKwVIPpTLOumrZkMSgN9NOagHxYAqJ2PAjG6+fQ0NM049v2M0buxoJo8Ngk1o0euxKs/ Yn9YypVnbsD9Uotz1uTLzTNFcHZmaPtYUeBwOFEfwIvd5Lr5NaNIyMZUi5MFifXW3qV5r0NFf KpR0exrC+y+e4Pfjkrpa6huqDFMxptxH9ilQnnJz6flJiZjJnGpxk2f7ePWLTTlUPxcNJ4fXL tgHiRhJ3HfJKu33Rb0TJKCBiQz815Im5ugx7hjeN+466iilqgYf3keCaBxXXzt5nmIfmPCd2e z/wutbLlS5rorShtyM4ZIf3lV0LHUel3Cvsw6+9Yth+ZcaQq/kpV89VPoKo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460nKr5wZnz3H86 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.73 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.36.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.888,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.44)[ip: (1.33), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 02:00:18 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:44:15 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Polytropon writes: > > > [...] > >> Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do > >> that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user. > >> Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the > >> environment? > > > > Yes, that is really a problem, because so many other programs do > > it the right way; even temporary invocation in a different language > > is not a problem for "old" programs. For example, if you set a > > system-wide variable that applies to all users, that language > > variable should be honored. I see multi-language support as a > > great feature especially in FreeBSD, where I can use programs > > in the language I prefer, and that might be vary among the > > programs running in one session (for example, Sylpheed uses the > > english language, while LibreOffice uses the german one). > > Libreoffice seems to be bad as well because you have to go into the > settings and change it before you get the language you have already set. I don't remember that I did something like that. Maybe because I installed "de-libreoffice" explicitely? > I usually don't notice whether it's English or German, but the users > will freak out as if it would make a difference (which it doesn't > because they don't know what they're doing anyway). Same here. I prefer the english interface language because the german translation often is incomplete (english menu items among german ones) or wrong or missing (especially regarding error messages). The only programs I really _want_ to be in German are LibreOffice and Firefox (for reference). > This kinda reminds me of Gnome with which it is impossible to even add a > program starter. Oh, don't get me started with my hate-journey across Gnome. While Gnome first was superior to KDE language-wise, it later became more and more complicated: Not reading .xinitrc or .xsession, so forcing you to manually add "autostart programs", and mount/umount (and eject for optical units) didn't work at all, even though I followed the existing documentation, but finally I had to hack the umount binary (!)... And GDM's inability to launch anything than a Gnome session, and then came Gnome 3 which was so unusable that I switched the systems that ran Gnome for many years to Mate. That's the end of my personal Gnome story. :-) > It's already entirely useless because it doesn't even > have a usable window manager, but who would expect that you can't do > something basic like adding a start button or a menu entry. I had to > switch a machine ever to KDE because of that. Would you say KDE is usable again for "german novice users"? I haven't tried KDE for some time because of bloat... > There's just nothing better than fvwm ... On my laptop I'm using IceWM (with "metal2" style which finally includes a BSD start button, but at the top, where it belongs to) again, combined with wbar and a Mac background image for a "good look". ;-) On my home system, I found nothing better than a highly customized WIndowMaker with xdm. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...