From nobody Mon Jan 8 17:36:56 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T81TW3fxSz56CvY for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2024 17:37:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Thomas.Sparrevohn@me.com) Received: from st43p00im-ztfb10071701.me.com (st43p00im-ztfb10071701.me.com [17.58.63.173]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T81TV1vCqz4srp for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2024 17:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Thomas.Sparrevohn@me.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=me.com header.s=1a1hai header.b=zjm69t6H; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=me.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Thomas.Sparrevohn@me.com designates 17.58.63.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Thomas.Sparrevohn@me.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com; s=1a1hai; t=1704735421; bh=7ItTBbDj5b1Ws8jXHynxJMYsfPGt1IBN6bR0YtqzhXs=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Mime-version:Content-type; b=zjm69t6HGv3hwxrG0ZLYtUIGU+YrmcRWAdwFTAgdEG6btnozm7YAIzCdAQDz8m1Qi v9vxH+nXEH/5sGZyCEpumYuTp1La4qAOq4owXQeScFB4fUZ9Okh5X+p9mQDaTSqMJJ VC+stDHxcyWR/rzIrwzkeQnMqHVQkVb8hI9ArhLCkoJQ5KBysEGWdoPwMyk+kLUkcZ 6qS6NgTaBtdStZVtDbBUofm88IYaUn74o9GjQFagRUq5fqLD2kNC5VhllcTZ+NFPA0 fCIjfhHAoSgju83yzBLtC3/D1TGznbNkUWIztBq8RD9rq0W9PcxZEisnTYAxVNPT6t Q699V0tRJzFUg== Received: from [192.168.0.97] (st43p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.42.251.41]) by st43p00im-ztfb10071701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9183A02EB; Mon, 8 Jan 2024 17:37:00 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.80.23121017 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2024 17:36:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Freebsd on M1 Macs From: Thomas Sparrevohn To: Kyle Evans , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Freebsd on M1 Macs References: <7a13c63d-a50b-429c-a481-0693e9faaf6b@gmail.com> <1536d845-9073-4f9b-96f6-fa9647536c00@gmail.com> <3651f45a-a96a-4816-b8fe-5e239e08af22@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3651f45a-a96a-4816-b8fe-5e239e08af22@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arm List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-GUID: 7A71EiSVBMh2bkbL5Z2efoU0glrFfjaE X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 7A71EiSVBMh2bkbL5Z2efoU0glrFfjaE X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.997,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-01-08_07,2024-01-08_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=959 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2401080149 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.20 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[me.com,quarantine]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[17.58.63.173:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:17.58.0.0/16]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[me.com:s=1a1hai]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[17.58.63.173:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[me.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[me.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[me.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.63.0/24, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[me.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T81TV1vCqz4srp As I said to Joe in a previous post - I am personally quite impressed of ho= w easy it was go get up and running - granted it crashes with >8 Cores - but= Under parallels it ran well - making a very long term BSD user very very ha= ppy - Looking at both Linux and NetBSD - (NetBSD randomly freezes with >8 Co= res) but both seems doggy when it comes to how it handles efficiency cores. = What got me to go back to FreeBSD - was=20 A) I really miss it but since I got rid of my PC's there seems to be no opt= ion B) I do understand the codebase=20 C) Nobody seems to have a consistent approach to scheduling=20 E.g. Mac OS X uses QoS to control affinity, everybody else uses "affinity" = - but "setaffinity" seems like taking a hammer to the schedular - So I wante= d to understand. ARM as such is a bit of a mess in as much there are a very = varied number of CPU and designs - but at the same time this is why ARM is s= uch an interesting design. But Personally I am still a bit unsure what acron= ym or branding covers platform. Looking at two different - if somewhat exot= ic applications - E.g. A mainframe emulator and GNU APL who both hard relies= on the assumption that binding to a specific CPU will give you the best per= formance, personally I think that assumption is the intellectually the same = as running everything under rtprio - it seems that assumptions are being = made in the wild that will break once you have asymmetric CPU's - So I think= we - I mean the FreeBSD camp - has some work to do - If POSIX or others co= dify the state of "Now" we end up with the same mess as pthreads ended up be= ing.=20 After all that I really wanted to thank everybody who has worked on ARM for= allowing me to get back to having FreeBSD running on my daily workhorse - i= t's really a work well done Regards Thomas =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 26/11/2023, 23:52, "Kyle Evans" on behalf of kevans@FreeBSD.org > wrote: On 11/26/23 16:04, Jason Bacon wrote: > On 11/26/23 13:22, Joe B wrote: >> >> I know this is a longshot but I'm going to ask I know MacOS is a BSD=20 >> but we all know it's very sugarcoated and doesn't look like a BSD. >> >> Question will real freeBSD ever come to the m1 Mac's. I got a 16 inch=20 >> mbp with good specs just taking up space right now >> >> Thanks >> >> ~ Joe B >=20 > I assume you've seen https://wiki.freebsd.org/AppleSilicon . Not sure=20 > how up-to-date it is. The wikis tend to lag behind reality in my=20 > experience. >=20 Yeah, this is a bit out of date. SMP and watchdog bits are good, along=20 with some subset of the USB ports (IOMMU is a WIP). With the branch I'm=20 working on right now, we can go full multi-user on a USB root. Work stalled for a bit because there was a general disagreement with how we=20 integrated parts of the interrupt control into the interrupt framework,=20 but I've been given a vision recently of a clear path forward, so=20 hopefully we can move forward with that and unblock upstreaming some of=20 the other bits. Thanks, Kyle Evans