From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 27 15:24:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DD8106564A for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:24:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@freebsd.org) Received: from nm22-vm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm22-vm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.223]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB8CC8FC1D for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [72.30.22.92] by nm22.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2012 15:24:24 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.47] by tm14.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2012 15:23:24 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1047.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2012 15:23:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 382543.5531.bm@omp1047.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 23302 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jun 2012 15:23:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1340810604; bh=XOyStI7oC+H+j+R+jQsvLn0SLOeVJYhmS814m3+vKO4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-RocketYMMF:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0XDkynYPJaY48YEXidIgwmAS5lpShoOnejlwnHneYlMxyuXlLpxMPDEZHphQoNOligZjHEOwJdxkttIk2Lw1srXAnPfwPQb0geJo+ApD+PD4k/pEToiKB+r6PX350d66PXqNM4qPXNCZOIAG6Xqdx6ZhYQTtHyvQ9YZJQoRRccM= X-YMail-OSG: 5s_C3F0VM1mjO7u9MZ_nv7zYILlU6N55BTHPs_qZJTD6vAP Ov4D9vXNid41keLd_i1Ep4qmB2IXVO49CRxR2ON8hCBZrDkhFM97oEGjnSZb OzCe1rTSlIhegBUKYHP5Qvfp7mExzoGfN0O7pLCbA0gPjTX0QN63ngfhLXI. I2L0s32gavDUQUlImqlHyq1dMpSfcJMXu0_D1ZLMPWAl.fovqbFQn4ulA_bP .fBLUFr9bFz364SPcZKVI0NdpSxTBwwY6pJeNz75fIcG1UyffspOgwAkamDs EPyP5DOCrOh8huWJbzePA7I2QyLj1CVQUUKCJ4hqSVFCsjvOoRJs3kiA8cKn 59aSwtA355EtOCS0dYt_KmsIUTtkG7DmdzY.6PRbk.CGpcTpKA9I9eVpuX7z HJRl6RFSIMJV646_bHATqSR96j.lZZaWjKksSrUPVOAUCdZarGwbR7VsgOTY zY7.f Received: from [200.118.157.7] by web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:23:23 PDT X-RocketYMMF: giffunip X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/15.0.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1340810603.22476.YahooMailClassic@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:23:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Pedro Giffuni To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FEB1F20.8010704@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] BSD sort is the default sort in -CURRENT X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfg@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:24:24 -0000 =0A=0A--- Mer 27/6/12, Doug Barton ha scritto:=0A...=0A= > =0A> Nope.=0A> =0A> > I would think only the maintainer of the package ha= s=0A> the=0A> > authority to make any request in the lines of being=0A> > b= ug-for-bug compatible=0A> =0A> You have a seriously wrong idea of "maintain= er." The=0A> community owns the software, it's up to the community=0A> to d= ecide how it should work.=0A=0AYou have a serious wrong idea of ownership. = No one really=0Aowns the code and only few people actually take the time=0A= to take care of it.=0A=0A> Historically we have looked at the maintainer as= the person=0A> who volunteers to take care of code, not the person who has= =0A> the exclusive lock on it.=0A> =0A=0AThe maintainer, in this context, d= oesn't have to be a committer=0Abut it has to be someone that spends time f= ixing bugs or=0Aenhancing the code. You might think that because you use th= e=0Acode and are used to certain bug that you depend on that you=0Asomehow = have a say on how it shall behave in the future but that=0Ais simply an ill= usion.=0A=0A=0A> > and in the case of GNU sort and=0A> > GNU grep they are = both unmaintained and replacements=0A> > are welcome.=0A> =0A> Actually bot= h are maintained, it's just that we don't want=0A> to import the new GNU ve= rsions.=0A=0AOur forks of such packages are unmaintained. I did the work=0A= (TM) of updating GNU sort and no one cared to commit it.=0AOleg, took as re= ference the latest upstream sort=0Aimplementation.=0A=0A> And yes, having B= SD versions of these core tools is a=0A> nice goal, but it's not one we sho= uld pursue for its own=0A> sake.=0A> =0A=0AHaving something that we can mai= ntain is a goal we should=0Apursue for it's own sake.=0A=0A> > Please let's= stop being an obstacle towards people=0A> > bringing real progress to Free= BSD!=0A> =0A> In the case of grep, there were a fairly large number of=0A> = people who agreed that a BSD grep with orders of magnitude=0A> worse perfor= mance than the previous version was not=0A> something we, as a project, wer= e willing to=0A> stomach. Sufficiently such that the default was switched= =0A> back.=0A> =0A=0APerformance was an issue and in general it was a good= =0Adecision that even the coder involved agreed upon. Once=0Athe issue is w= ithin acceptable limits, and there has been=0Aprogress on this as I underst= and, BSD grep will be=0Aback.=0A=0ADon't expect BSD grep to support somethi= ng different than=0Aposix behaviour though.=0A=0A> So can we please stop pr= etending that it's me who's the=0A> problem, and start looking at these thi= ngs rationally?=0A> =0A=0AHow about rationally pointing out your issues wit= h the new=0ABSD sort? Any regression that you want to report?=0A=0APedro.