Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:27:37 -0700 From: "Chad Leigh Shire.Net LLC" <chad@shire.net> To: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Cc: Chad Leigh <chad@shire.net> Subject: Re: well, try here first... Message-ID: <DB23A001-292B-49BE-86BE-89523495761F@shire.net> In-Reply-To: <20121114054848.3a35510f.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20121113052159.GA31404@ethic.thought.org> <20121113063952.5c9bfaa2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20121113075721.GB3359@ethic.thought.org> <20121113151033.1d03bf13@X220.ovitrap.com> <20121113091255.070097f6.freebsd@edvax.de> <20121113190006.GC2570@ethic.thought.org> <20121114044748.7582a006@X220.ovitrap.com> <20121114010738.GA16091@ethic.thought.org> <20121114082600.48d0f681@X220.ovitrap.com> <20121114035814.572a5f7e.freebsd@edvax.de> <FE82910B-C8C7-4DA3-A110-21E07177BD81@shire.net> <20121114054848.3a35510f.freebsd@edvax.de>
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--Apple-Mail=_D570C636-96C8-4951-A640-F0ED50A89EF1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Polytropon wrote: > That matches what I've learned in school, but it doesn't match > realitiy anymore. :-) >=20 > A famous thing is "comma in lists": Unlike German, where "and" > substitutes a comma, in English it seems to be valid to put a > comma infront of "and": >=20 > He bought a glass, a towel, a toothpick, and a nose. >=20 > In German, that would be >=20 > Er kaufte ein Glas, ein Handtuch, einen Zahnstocker > und eine Nase. This is interesting, because the comma before the "and" in a list is = much more understandable, because it is open to less interpretation. = This is where the "eats shoots and leaves" comes in, kind of. There are = similar examples where ambiguity arises from the lack of a comma before = "and" in a list. The comma before the "and" is traditional English. = There are, however, lots of people who advocate for the lack of a comma = before the "and" in a list and that is taught in some classes in some = schools. I don't claim to be a great German speaker or writer. I have not = visited there in 12 years nor lived there in almost 20 years. But = people at least can understand me and I can get my point across. :) Most of my post was meant to support what you were saying, btw. As = well as give examples and interesting tidbits. I agree that proper = grammar is important in language, even when I don't always use it or do = it; especially in informal speech like email lists, forums, etc. > But pleese pay atension too, the new englis orfograffy which > make`s every thing easyer to under stand and, more freedems > to mak punctation and les speeling errer's. >=20 > Funkzionier't auch in, Deutsch! :-) You must really be taking a conniption fit with the changes (Verbilligen = -- cheapening -- though the exact words I was searching for have failed = me tonight) that have happened in German in the last 10 or so years ( = striking of =DF; to always be written with "ss" now, etc)... >>=20 >> Und "Playboy alles was Maennern Spass macht" ist 100% verst=E4ndlich >> auf deutsch, da es einen richtigen Dativ Kasus gibt, im Gegensatz >> zu englischer Sprache. >=20 > It may be 100% understandable, but it's not correct, because it's > not a sentence or a grammatically valid construct. The translation > would have been (quite literally, I admit): >=20 > Playboy everything what men fun makes Actually, no. A more correct translation would be: Playboy = everything that to men fun makes. [Or, if you wanted the same mistake (lack of comma or hyphen) but proper = English word order: Playboy everything that is fun for men.] "M=E4nnern" is dative case, which, when used without a preposition, is = best translated as "to <something>" where <something> is written with = dative case endings. >=20 > Again, a hyphen after the 1st word would it much more readable. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> (and "playboy -- everything that is fun for men" [in German] is >> 100% understandable in German, because there is a real dative case >> in German, unlike in english.) >=20 > In _that_ translation, you've used the hyphen correctly (which was > missing in the german version discussed). >=20 Yes, my bad. I was trying to write it the same but fixed it = unconsciously. regards Chad --Apple-Mail=_D570C636-96C8-4951-A640-F0ED50A89EF1--
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