From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 5 18:35:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEAE106566B; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (mx1.sbone.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:130:3ffc::401:25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938458FC19; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.sbone.de (mail.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AF9E25D3887; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C4C6BE84BD; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sbone.de Received: from mail.sbone.de ([IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) by content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AG1xm3xzQ5ln; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nv.sbone.de (nv.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43049BE84BC; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:35:48 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: Garrett Wollman In-Reply-To: <20551.35538.119912.329917@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Message-ID: References: <20120905112013.2d44783c@laptop> <09CB99A0-75BC-426C-BD44-9ACC7CD741D1@exonetric.com> <20551.35538.119912.329917@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Cc: hubs@freebsd.org, Cluster Administrators Subject: Re: pkgng mirrors X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 18:35:55 -0000 On Wed, 5 Sep 2012, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > >> 4) we (FreeBSD) will be running the own official mirrors much the same >> way as indicated on the SVN mirror thread. This will be what we >> will be supporting. > > It would have been nice if this had been discussed with the people who > have volunteered significant resources over the past nearly two > decades to support FreeBSD by operating mirrors. Say, the ones on > this mailing-list, perhaps? Rather than just a peremptory "thanks but > we don't need you any more"? > > It may very well be the right thing to do, but it certainly doesn't > come over well, particularly when (as in my case) people have just > recently put substantial new resources into their mirrors. Sorry I am direct rather than beating about the bush, esp. as you agree it's time to get the news out. You'll find that some of this is a result of last weeks discussions and the proper writeup is on TODO lists. The ideas aren't new -- I can easily go back to 2008 and find postings about CDNs for packages. The fact that it took us quite long doesn't make it better. But to speak more of a timeline, you'll want to know that about 2 months ago, I couldn't have told you anything of this more than general ponderings that had existed for years one way or another and possibly mostly totally different. The fact that you do not see an official pkg mirror with packages yet is equally telling I guess. HOWEVER: beware that the old stuff will continue to run for quite a while still, probably longer than some of us would love to see or think currently, but we need it, especially if run well (though the majority of mirrors sadly aren't run well); so your investment in a good FreeBSD mirror site is worth it and welcome! And we are talking into 2015 here probably (and things tend to slip) by the current plans to my understanding and probably a lot of people haven't realized that. So you are getting a multi-year notice. That's a lot of time for us to get experience with the current plans. We might very well as well find that we do have a larger digit number of users by an order of magnitude or two and suddenly say "oh *beep*, let's forget about that plan quickly and then again have to figure out how to equip mirrors with 10TB of usable disk space and 128+G of memory or half a rack of machines";) The numbers might not be too far off in total of what we are currently looking at -- though I am guessing rather than doing maths. In addition, as I mentioned, feel free to continue to run a mirror for your local community it's not that you have to stop that out of a sudden even after the magic year. The fact that we'll provide rsync from the mirrors for you should tell that. In fact we'll provide you with way better resources to do this than we currently do should you in a few years still need or want to mirror. And yes, we are aware at this point of having "3rd party mirrors" and we are discussing how to continue to "endorse" (strong word) them to the best we can for new stuff. The Australian SVN mirror case has clearly shown us that we need to figure it out. The answer is - don't know yet and certainly don't know before our own stuff is up and running but will let you as time comes. I think that's again my personal summary of what I think is the satte of affairs but again, consider it informal. /bz -- Bjoern A. Zeeb You have to have visions! Stop bit received. Insert coin for new address family.