From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 20:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87EF16A4CE for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.blarg.net (zoot.blarg.net [206.124.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D479A43D2D for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abowhill@blarg.net) Received: from kosmos.my.net (12-230-212-176.client.attbi.com [12.230.212.176]) by mail.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C305533D30 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kosmos.my.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kosmos.my.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i074K7LP066034 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:20:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kosmos@kosmos.my.net) Received: (from kosmos@localhost) by kosmos.my.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i074K68i066033 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kosmos) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:20:06 -0800 From: Allan Bowhill To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040107042006.GA65900@kosmos.my.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040106202408.GC63867@kosmos.my.net> <20040106233751.A32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <20040107001001.GA65133@kosmos.my.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-URL: http://www.blarg.net/~abowhill/ Subject: Re: Personal patches X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 04:20:59 -0000 --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 0, Brad Knowles wrote: :At 4:10 PM -0800 2004/01/06, Allan Bowhill wrote: :> How so? There is nothing illegitmate, arbitrary, illegal, secret or :> repressive about requiring fingerprints and photos of visitors who come :> across our international borders. It is necessary record-keeping. : : Why not just torture them until they confess their obvious crimes? Good idea. That Old-Europe antiterrorism knowhow is just as fresh today as it was during the Spanish Inquisition. :> {Personally I hope genetic fingerprinting ultimately replaces this :> system. This method of identification has proven indispensable in :> catching criminals who would otherwise have gone unnoticed. It works. : : Have you ever heard of "contamination" or "computer error"? What=20 :about outright abuse of the system? : : We computer types should understand the concept of "garbage-in,=20 :garbage-out", as well as the concept of "no computer is infallible". : Exactly. Keeping the garbage out is a legitimate goal of the system. :> Again, why should we trust? : : I see. Obviously all extranationals are criminals, so why don't=20 :we just nuke them all out of existence and solve the problem? But if we did that ... where would we get our slaves from? :> No organization (or nation) with plenty to lose will base it's practices :> on institutionalized trust. It's always institutionalized mistrust that :> makes it possible to conduct business. Like with banks. : : The biggest crimes are always committed by insiders. You or I=20 :would be unlikely to steal thousands of dollars from a bank, and=20 :totally unable to steal billions of dollars from a bank, but for=20 :insiders it could be very easy. Indeed, for them the larger the=20 :numbers, the easier they are to hide. Batting 1000. The biggest act of terrorism in the U.S. was not performed by insiders.=20 However, you have a good point. Preventing domestic terrorism is another aspect of homeland security. : They don't freakin' speak the bloody language of the people they=20 :are claiming to be terrorists. They can't even properly spell the=20 :names of the supposed terrorists. If they think that every=20 :"Mohammed" is a criminal, let's see them put every "Mr. Smith" in=20 :jail, or every Chang in China. : : Let them start spelling the names properly. Let them start=20 :understanding the language. Let them figure out that Mohammed ibn=20 :Saud (or whatever) is about as common a name as "Fred Smith", and the=20 :name alone is far from enough information to tell you whether a=20 :particular person may or may not be a supposed terrorist. : : Or do you really want to turn this into a GATTACA, or maybe 1984? Yeah, false positives can be embarrassing. But what the hell. Maybe Homeland Security can be persuaded to use SpamAssassin. --=20 Allan Bowhill abowhill@blarg.net Concept, n.: Any "idea" for which an outside consultant billed you more than $25,000. --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/+4j1BC/kSIeFE54RAmXQAJ9aQZbFuXGJWFbqAjjFfKeFXYpdHQCbBhl4 KAOyApAgYngP9pzz+LwsavQ= =dd5r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE--