From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Dec 29 00:54:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69AC5E9E575 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 00:54:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from smtp.digiware.nl (smtp.digiware.nl [IPv6:2001:4cb8:90:ffff::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 325727486B; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 00:54:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from router.digiware.nl (localhost.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D742E3BF; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:53:59 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at digiware.com Received: from smtp.digiware.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by router.digiware.nl (router.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pObcvzCd0RJC; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:53:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.11.152] (unknown [192.168.11.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 055512E3BD; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:53:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: making SW_WATCHDOG dynamic To: Mark Linimon , "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, karels@freebsd.org References: <201712261425.vBQEPMmQ007578@mail.karels.net> <201712271811.vBRIBqOK061996@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20171228022301.GA30039@lonesome.com> From: Willem Jan Withagen Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:53:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20171228022301.GA30039@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: nl Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 00:54:12 -0000 On 28/12/2017 03:23, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:11:52AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> I think we have lost some light as to what the GENERIC kernel >> is really for, to get you up and running good enough that you >> can infact build a custom kernel. I do not think it was ever >> intended that people run this long term, though over the years >> that has become the defacto standard. IMHO, a bad one at that. > > By including more things in GENERIC, we expanded our audience past > "kernel developers + system administrators". > > In particular, including "people using desktops and laptops who just > want to get work done". > > Expecting everyone to recompile their kernels would be a shocking > step backwards for the project IMVHO. I've been building custom kernels for as long as I can remember. And it used to be like you describe, get the box running and give it its own build-config. But as the number of systems under my fingers grew, maintenance became more and more a pain/time-consuming. And since about a year I've started using freebsd-update on those systems that need proper maintenance. And I cannot avoid the feeling that this is sort of perpendicular to your suggestion of building custom kernels, since freebsd-update frowns on that... And I've got the feeling that's the tool quite a lot of people use to deal with basic Freebsd maintenance stuff. --WjW